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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    Well, if she plans to attempt the 3Lz+3Lo, she can't do the 3Lo as her solo jump.
    I see what you mean. I don't see many 3Lz/3Loop from her, but just in case, it's better to work another jump then 3Loop as solo triple. I agree.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by all_empty View Post
    You have her repeating three triples (3L, 3Lo, 3T), which she cannot do.

    She could swap the second Lutz for a flip, but why do that since her Lutz is usually pretty solid and worth more points? Maybe the second toe loop?
    No. Under this jump layout, she will do 2 Lutz, 2 Toeloop, 2 Loop and 1 Salcow (no Flip). Double jumps (loop or toeloop) doesn't count under the rule. She still doing two Lutz which is her best jump IMO, and with Flip jump being close to loop in base value, it only give her less than 1/4 of a point in advantage. < loop jump will get more credit than Flip jump that was poped, fall or get an edge call.

  3. #23
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    I also thought this was going to be about the similarities of her recent LPs, considering her LP this year is basically her 09 LP which was basically her 07 LP. I still love her though.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen View Post
    She did 3Lz+3Lo in her COC SP and bank 9 point for that combo even with the < and -GEO. I think she will put that combo in the LP as the season goes and by the time major events come, GPF, National, 4CC, World so she cannot put another solo 3Lo in her program. If she nail 3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo, the jumps content will be pretty competitive even with a <.
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen View Post
    No. Under this jump layout, she will do 2 Lutz, 2 Toeloop, 2 Loop and 1 Salcow (no Flip). Double jumps (loop or toeloop) doesn't count under the rule. She still doing two Lutz which is her best jump IMO, and with Flip jump being close to loop in base value, it only give her less than 1/4 of a point in advantage. < loop jump will get more credit than Flip jump that was poped, fall or get an edge call.
    No, I don't think you're quite getting it. She would be doing the 3Lz twice, the 3Lo twice and the 3T twice, which is not allowed. She can't repeat more than two triple jumps, and the repeated triples must include at least one in combination. Under your proposed jump layout, her 3T would receive no credit.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loves_Shizuka View Post
    I also thought this was going to be about the similarities of her recent LPs, considering her LP this year is basically her 09 LP which was basically her 07 LP. I still love her though.
    You still love her despite so many of her LPs being eerily similar? You've got a big heart, let me tell you!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    You still love her despite so many of her LPs being eerily similar? You've got a big heart, let me tell you!
    It always goes

    1. Music starts
    2. Slight interpretation/posing for a few seconds
    3. Immediate crossovers towards the judges and then glides away into the back left corner (from the judges' perspective)
    4. Lutz-loop combo


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    It always goes

    1. Music starts
    2. Slight interpretation/posing for a few seconds
    3. Immediate crossovers towards the judges and then glides away into the back left corner (from the judges' perspective)
    4. Lutz-loop combo

    Is that Morozov's standard program opening for all his skaters or is Miki the only one he gives this choreography too?

  8. #28
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    Does anyone know if she can do a triple lutz-triple toe?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    You still love her despite so many of her LPs being eerily similar? You've got a big heart, let me tell you!
    Oh I know love. Also, most of the time I'm drunk.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loves_Shizuka View Post
    Oh I know love. Also, most of the time I'm drunk.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    No, I don't think you're quite getting it. She would be doing the 3Lz twice, the 3Lo twice and the 3T twice, which is not allowed. She can't repeat more than two triple jumps, and the repeated triples must include at least one in combination. Under your proposed jump layout, her 3T would receive no credit.
    Actually under the proposed layout (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo) all repeat jump are done with combination. The first 3Lutz in combination with 3Loop, and solo lutz later. Same goes for 3Loop, first in back end of Lutz combo and later as solo jump. And 3Toe in combination with 2A and solo jump later.

    Doesn't mater what combination you did, you can do 3T+3T or 3T+2T or 3T+1T or 2A+3T and all are count as in combination. You misread the rule, under the rule you cannot repeat triple jumps more than TWICE. Its the third jump that will get no credit. Even if you fail to do the second jump in combination, you still get partial credit, 80% of the original value. -20% penalty for failing to do in combination.

    Best example will be Irina Slutskya 2005 world LP. She did three triple loop in the program and the third jump got zero credit.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    It always goes

    1. Music starts
    2. Slight interpretation/posing for a few seconds
    3. Immediate crossovers towards the judges and then glides away into the back left corner (from the judges' perspective)
    4. Lutz-loop combo

    LOL I for one don't have a problem with that. After all, she is setting up big triple+triple combo and what ever works for her. Isn't Kim do the same thing, music start, smile and look at the judges, do some primsy arm moves and flip-toe combo?? I also notice Kim always do her Flip-toe in right corner of the rink. Majority of all the skaters always open their program in similar way. Maybe its a comfort zone to start of the program?? who knows.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen View Post
    Actually under the proposed layout (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo) all repeat jump are done with combination. The first 3Lutz in combination with 3Loop, and solo lutz later. Same goes for 3Loop, first in back end of Lutz combo and later as solo jump. And 3Toe in combination with 2A and solo jump later.

    Doesn't mater what combination you did, you can do 3T+3T or 3T+2T or 3T+1T or 2A+3T and all are count as in combination. You misread the rule, under the rule you cannot repeat triple jumps more than TWICE. Its the third jump that will get no credit. Even if you fail to do the second jump in combination, you still get partial credit, 80% of the original value. -20% penalty for failing to do in combination.

    Best example will be Irina Slutskya 2005 world LP. She did three triple loop in the program and the third jump got zero credit.


    No. This is not correct. You cannot repeat more than two triple jumps. You can repeat two (and no more than two) triple jumps, and at least one must be in combination.

    From the ISU technical panel handbook for single skating:

    Of all the triple and quadruple jumps only two (2) can be repeated and these
    repetitions must be in either a jump-combination or in a jump sequence.
    Source

    It doesn't matter if all three repeated jumps are in combination, when she's not allowed to repeat a third triple in the first place.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Does anyone know if she can do a triple lutz-triple toe?
    She always seems to do combinations with loop jumps on the back end, except for if the first jump is a double axel. It would appear she has a very nice 3t but I guess the loop is a more secure jump for her in combinations? You would think a 3lz-3t would be significantly easier to execute and rotate for most skaters...

  15. #35
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    Miki's least favorite jump is a toe-loop jump, so I read in an interview a long time ago. I think she could do a 3lutz/3toe if she wants to. She used to do a 3toe/3toe and a 3lutz/3loop in a program.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen View Post
    Actually under the proposed layout (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo) all repeat jump are done with combination. The first 3Lutz in combination with 3Loop, and solo lutz later. Same goes for 3Loop, first in back end of Lutz combo and later as solo jump. And 3Toe in combination with 2A and solo jump later.

    Doesn't mater what combination you did, you can do 3T+3T or 3T+2T or 3T+1T or 2A+3T and all are count as in combination. You misread the rule, under the rule you cannot repeat triple jumps more than TWICE. Its the third jump that will get no credit. Even if you fail to do the second jump in combination, you still get partial credit, 80% of the original value. -20% penalty for failing to do in combination.

    Best example will be Irina Slutskya 2005 world LP. She did three triple loop in the program and the third jump got zero credit.
    Oleada is right. Under your layout, she's repeating three different types of Triple jumps. A skater cannot do that.

    In order to be allowed to repeat a Triple Jump, one of the attempts must be in combination. However, just because you do three different triples in combination doesn't mean a skater is allowed to repeat all three triples. He/she is only limited to repeating two of the three triples they put in combination.

    This Zayak rule has been effect for more than twenty years now and hasn't changed, even with the advent of the COP.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 11-18-2010 at 01:22 AM.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post


    No. This is not correct. You cannot repeat more than two triple jumps. You can repeat two (and no more than two) triple jumps, and at least one must be in combination.

    From the ISU technical panel handbook for single skating:



    Source

    It doesn't matter if all three repeated jumps are in combination, when she's not allowed to repeat a third triple in the first place.
    Ohhh ic. thanks!!
    Last edited by wonderlen; 11-17-2010 at 06:50 PM.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen View Post
    (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo)

    Where exactly is the THIRD triple jump of the same kind???
    You have Miki repeating the Triple Lutz, Triple Toe, and Triple Loop.

    She can only repeat two of those jumps. No need to roll your eyes since Oleada was only stating the rules as they have existed in the past 20+ years.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 11-18-2010 at 01:22 AM.
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  19. #39

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    nm (I see that oleada and VIETgrlterifa have explained this very well already.)

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen View Post
    (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo)

    Where exactly is the THIRD triple jump of the same kind???
    As falling_dance, VIETgrlTerifa, and I have explained, you have Miki repeating the 3Lz, 3T and 3Lo. That's three (count them. three. 1, 2, 3) different triples she would be repeating. As referenced in the ISU technical handbook, this is not permitted.

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