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  1. #61

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    The problem is that they accepted what the italian federation wanted, but I am not sure they are both happy with the change ...
    Three weeks with the change, and I am not even sure they have a new FD which was the whole thing about in the beginning
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  2. #62

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    That is sad. They are such lovely, and talented skaters. I would hate to see them retire because of this mess.

    They have so much more that I think they could achieve. And I'd love to see it.

  3. #63

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    Me too !!
    Let's cross fingers so that they can tweak in something in time for euros !
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    The problem is that they accepted what the italian federation wanted, but I am not sure they are both happy with the change ...
    If true, it's very sad that skaters holding so much potential might end up nowhere because of politiks.

    Nmsis gave a very good example of how different the two schools work - the Russian and the French. I had the same experience as a dancer. Worked with someone from Poland all my life, so she had the Russian school down to a "t" and we were taught to rather do a clean double than risk a messy triple.
    France was all about risking the triple and make up for mistakes through artistry. What I also realized was that France never was really pushing until the absolute limit; it was never we're staying on that one issue until it's perfect but rather went on to the next.
    I think the skating schools are quite similar and it certainly explains why programs aren't quite refined at the beginning of the season.

    I hope that P&B won't end up with repetitive programs and will work with choreographers who can give them inspiration.

    What I don't understand with Muriel is the fact that Marina and Gwendal had a different choreographer each year - why isn't she keeping up with that?
    A choreographer has a style, so working with someone different each year guarantees the most success to be different.

    Interesting example about the long-term progress are the Hermann's from Germany. If they're still with Muriel. But they're taking the year off.

    Whatever C/L's problem is, I hope they get it sorted out because I like them way too much for them to go down the hill.
    Though I certainly wouldn't consider them as "older" skaters. They came onto the Senior scene the same year or a year prior to Virtue/Moir and Davis/White and those were three promising young couples. Only, the two North American couples were much better prepared. Maybe it's the mixture of Russian coaching with creativity and ambition?
    Though I certainly don't think C/L should move to the US I don't know what they need... I think they have it all, someone just needs to bring out all that potential.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    Interesting example about the long-term progress are the Hermann's from Germany. If they're still with Muriel. But they're taking the year off.
    Hermann/Hermann left Lyon.

  6. #66
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    What I expected from C/L going to Zazoui was that they, particularly she, would refine their basic skating and deepen their edges, and that this would cause Capellini to stop looking juniorish.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmsis View Post
    This season, they have developped the dramatic idea with Cottereau to its full potential. And I think their FD has the biggest potential to attract the love of the public and the judges. But the choreo itself is dull. The whole interest lies in the customisation of the moves (there were changes in almost all the elements after the Nebelhorn and the Masters) and in the interpretation to create a chaplinesque ambiance. That's a very delicate work that has been done on that FD and that's the work of a pantomime they have "absorbed".

    Now I think that they are reaching the limit of the ideas they got in Lyon. It's fine for this year but the problem for them in the next 3 years will be : will they be able to find a new impulse ? Because as far as Zhulin goes, the only thing I've witnessed is that as soon as something doesn't go smoothly, it goes to the trash can. New lifts, new elements, ideas, programs ... They tend to become repetitive. Repetition brings more steadiness and confidence. But after a while, if there is no new idea to bring some interest, it becomes dull, even if it's well skated. It's the real danger for them and I hope they will be able to avoid it.

    Nmsis this is a very, very interesting post (all of it not just what I quoted ) and I've been wondering about their work with Zhulin. He has been good with them regarding their edges and gaining some consistency in performances, but I think he also is looking to play it safe with doing what will gather up the most points. I was really glad to hear that they are also working with Maxim Staviski too because I think he can bring a little more creative eye to the process. He and Albena did great things working with Linichuk but Max always had his hand in creating the choreography. His skating style is much stronger and athletic than Nathalie and Fabian's, but it could be interesting. Or do you not agree (I'm not baiting you, just really curious what you thin about this )?

    Cappellini and Lanotte have always had a very charming presence on the ice. IMO it would benefit them greatly staying with Zazoui so it's a real disappointment to hear that they left back to Italy. It makes one wonder what the real reasoning behind the decision is.
    Last edited by sk8tingfan; 11-16-2010 at 04:37 PM.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8tingfan View Post
    I was really glad to hear that they are also working with Maxim Staviski too because I think he can bring a little more creative eye to the process. He and Albena did great things working with Linichuk but Max always had his hand in creating the choreography. His skating style is much stronger and athletic than Nathalie and Fabian's, but it could be interesting. Or do you not agree (I'm baiting you, just really curious what you thin about this )?
    I do agree.
    Staviski is one of the best ice dancers ever and has always oozed creativity.
    Any french dancer would probably be delighted to work with him.
    I just don't know what his position is among the Zhulin team and how much time he has left beside the Ice and Fire show (the same for Zhulin actually). I think I remember from a comment he made about Ilinykh/Katsalapov that he would like to work with them. But they are Zhulin's students so I guess working with Zhulin doesn't mandatorily means working with Zhulin AND Staviski.
    The other thing I don't know is how P/B's next idea will work out and with whom it will work out. Last year, they were back to the Compagnie Kafig. Working with the Compagnie Kafig is to work on movement, often in a modern interpretation of a classical theme. It didn't work with Zhulin. It got transformed into a dramatic interpretation with moves picked from the initial version and it was just bad. I think Staviski is a lot more versatile than Zhulin. I just don't know how much he is.


    About C/L, I really hope they will be nice and ready by Euros because the ice dance competition is gonna be the weakest ever (I can see it being a lot better in 2011 but there will still be a dance event in Bern ).

  9. #69
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    Nmsis, thanks for your reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nmsis View Post
    The other thing I don't know is how P/B's next idea will work out and with whom it will work out. Last year, they were back to the Compagnie Kafig. Working with the Compagnie Kafig is to work on movement, often in a modern interpretation of a classical theme. It didn't work with Zhulin. It got transformed into a dramatic interpretation with moves picked from the initial version and it was just bad. I think Staviski is a lot more versatile than Zhulin. I just don't know how much he is.
    Agreed. I really liked the concept of thier FD last year but after Zhulin got his fingerprints all over it ... well it just wasn't what it could have been. Not that he's a terrible coach he's just trying to get the most points for his team, but it does make me wonder what it would look like if they worked with someone like Staviski. I would be really interested in seeing what work Maxim could do with a team because I agree that he is more versatile.

    IMO Zhulin would be clever to bring him on board, but I don't know if his ego would take it.

    By the way, I looked at some videos of Compagnie Kafig since I had not heard of them. They're great, and I can see why Nathalie and Fabian were drawn to work with them. Their styles suit, I think.

    You know, I heard Tanith commentating during one of the GP events talking about Carron and Jones during their free programme. She said that it looked like they worked with a non-skating choreographer (they did, a flamenco specialist) and so it looked like the dance was in two parts - one part choreo, one part skating - and they needed more skating choreo to get more points. It's a little bit dismaying to me personally because it seems the creativity is sacrificed for accumulation of points. IMO the system makes it easier to get the scores if dancers go for much more traditional programmes (and I like both types of programmes but really crave some variety - I loved both Denkov/Staviski and Dubreuil/Lauzon). There aren't that many with the creativity to make something really interesting and different that works within the scoring system. I think that's why Maxim and Albena's dances from the '05-'06 and '06-'07 seasons really excited me. IMO Nathalie and Fabian do try to bring that.

    Sorry for whinging and going a little off track here.

    Back to Cappellini and Lanotte. I don't know what to make of this switch for them, and hope it doesn't hurt them in the long term. As you said, I hope they will be in good form by Euros and then Worlds. If not, it will be interesting to see what direction they take for '11-'12 season. It would really be a shame for them to slide down in standings and lose too much ground.

  10. #70

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    Where are C/L at Euros? Did they get injured or something? Someone please get me back into the loop.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    Where are C/L at Euros? Did they get injured or something? Someone please get me back into the loop.
    I hope more knowledgable people tell you more. From what I remember- C/L are changing their F/S, and they could not be ready for Europeans. They will compete at Worlds.
    I miss them. Hope they do not go down the drain. Way too much talent for that.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  12. #72
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    right, they don't compete at Euro because the new FD is still not ready, they'll be at Worlds. A knee injury for Luca slowed their preparation after the coach change

  13. #73

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    Ah, thanks for the info!

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8tingfan View Post
    IMO Zhulin would be clever to bring him [Staviyski] on board, but I don't know if his ego would take it.
    I'm jumping in in Zhulin's defense! There's no indication of his getting into the way of his coaching. Two years in a row he allowed Pechalat/Bourzat to go and get tehir programmes choreographed off-ice, in France, with the choreographers they chose. I've never heard a coach give his students this much freedom.

    When he was in New Jersey he invited Yevgeni Platov to coach with him in his rink and Platov was involved in helping Navka Kostomarov. An oversized ego would not have allowed that IMO. After all, Platov "robbed" him of his olympic dream.

    Oleg Volkov works full time with Zhulin and he works with Lyudmila Vlasova for the choreography of his teams as well. He has let in Maxim Staviyski and Albena Denkova to with his teams. I'm pretty sure Maxim had already helped I/K before that interview and was saying that he would like to work with them again.



    I love Maxim Staviyski, but Zhiganshina/Gazsi's programmes, which he choreographed, were a little bit of a let down. Hopefully he'll get better with time.

  15. #75
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    Nikolai Morozov in russian radiointerview said that Anna and Luka are now training with him.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris81 View Post
    Nikolai Morozov in russian radiointerview said that Anna and Luka are now training with him.
    OH NO

    lol

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    OH NO

    lol
    a famous skater once said it best in an iconic moment that transcended the sport from our world into the world of pop culture...

    "WHYYYYYYYYYYY, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY, WHYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!"

  18. #78

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    I dont get it - this would be the 3rd coach they've had this year??? Can someone confirm this is actually true? They're becoming the Nicole Bobek of ice dance.

  19. #79

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    Dunno whether this is true or not but never expected them to stay with Paola full time.

    If anything, I would have rather they went back to Roberto who is a great technician and served them well at the start. He has the same issues as Shpilband/Zoueva though, strong on technique but very traditional, boring programmes. Love it or loath it, C/Lan's 'Love Story' is still by far their best free dance and got an amazing reaction with fans and judges all year.

    As for Morozov, don't like to criticise him much because he always gets the job done, did it again this year with Amodio. Ironically though he is a lot better with figure skaters, Amodio, Shiz, Miki etc etc than dancers...His free dances are pretty awful but again he knows how to hit those level 4s.

    One thing we can expect for sure, Anna is gonna be piking forward hard on those step seqs to get the edges going, Morozov loves his exaggerated edge emphasis, so that there is no grey area to dispute the levels. Visions of G/Gonch skating (or should I say 'stepping') at 2 miles an hour at Olys 06 *pass the bucket*

    Maybe he is just 'helping' them for now, can't imagine they are gonna follow him around the world to train with him all year.

  20. #80
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    AFAIK, Morozov now is their full-time coach, not just 'helping' or something. He also created most of their new FD (not the whole program, when C/L came to him they already had the music and some choreographed parts). Anna and Luka are in Novogorsk now with Morozov, polishing their programs.

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