View Poll Results: Caroline Zhang's career high point will be

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  • Olympic Gold

    0 0%
  • World Gold

    2 1.57%
  • World medal

    7 5.51%
  • Making a World team, top 5 at Worlds

    11 8.66%
  • Making a World team, top 10 at Worlds

    24 18.90%
  • Making it back to top 3-4 at Nationals, but not on a World team

    38 29.92%
  • will never make it back to top 3-4 at Nationals again

    45 35.43%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    I don't know why people blame Alissa for the 2 spots at the Olympics
    Because Alissa came into the L.A. Worlds as the newly crowned U.S. Champion. U.S. National lady champion just do not perform as poorly as Alisa did at Worlds. Even Nancy ended up as high as 5th place overall after her disastrous LP in 93. Alissa was buried in 10th (or lower ?).

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by query5 View Post
    as in case of the ridiculous poll.
    if you didn't know her career was already over, why post such as nasty thing.
    if you even thought she had a chance why even question it.
    because you know you did your part in hurting her chances, career and character at the same time you build up, rachels, mirai, ashley, alissa, and now agnes,
    you think gao is going to better no, i think her ethnicity will hurt.
    becuase you want it to be and "all white:" club, and all rich club going back to the days of it being "royality sport".
    you haven't and will not change, even you fans approve.
    i dissapprove.
    My goodness you're obsessed aren't you. Remember, deranged is never an attractive look...

    Oh, I love Caroline btw, I just think you should share around whatever you're taking as it's obviously a great trip.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  3. #23

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    query5 seems like a less fun, angrier version of esta. I dissaprove.

    Anyway, I agree that her Jr. World title or 4CC bronze may be the high points of her career. Yes, her jumps look much improved this season, but she doesn't seem to be enjoying skating at all. I hope to see continued improvement come Nationals and next season. I'm not ready to give up on her completely, but I'm not quite sure how she fits into the U.S. ladies picture in regards to making a WC team or winning another ISU championship medal.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Ugh what bothers me most was that she should have been on that world team in 2009, but the judges decided to be retards and put an inconsistent Czisny on the team. And guess what, we lost our 3 spots to the Olympics. (I Know, we can argue that Zhang might have bombed, yadda yadda, but compared to Czisny, Zhang was 10000x more consistent in 09 than Czisny ever was.)
    I didn't realize that the USA owned three spots to the Olympics. I thought they were like everyone else and had to earn their spots every time. My mistake I guess
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  5. #25
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    The problem I see at the moment is while her jumps are getting better, her speed hasnt really improved, and while some of her spins like the Pearl Spin are still spectacular some arent what they had been before at the moment. Still she has many special qualities. It would be a shame if such a talented skater did not win atleast one World medal- even if a bronze. To me she is a standout skater, even with her flaws. And given her age she could be around another 7.5 years as an amateur as I said.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Because Alissa came into the L.A. Worlds as the newly crowned U.S. Champion. U.S. National lady champion just do not perform as poorly as Alisa did at Worlds. Even Nancy ended up as high as 5th place overall after her disastrous LP in 93. Alissa was buried in 10th (or lower ?).
    Rachel was 9th this year. That is not that great. So should we hate on Rachel this year for skating crappy and not getting the spots back the way Alissa was hated on last year? If rachel had gotten 5th like she did the year before, we would have 3 spots. So where is all the blame on her? The last 4 years the US Champions have performed not so great at worlds...not sure why Alissa is singled out?

    2007-Kimmie placed 4th
    2008-US Champ and silver medalist were too young, US bronze medalist Ashley placed 15th
    2009-Alissa placed 10th
    2010 Rachel placed 9th

    Aside from Kimmie's 4th place, none of those placements are very good for the top US lady.
    Last edited by UGG; 10-30-2010 at 06:24 PM.

  7. #27
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    ^ Alissa's victory in 09 was a big spoof. Rachael's US title in 10 was somewhat of a controversy. Ashley had little experience in 08.

    Aside from that, I think the emphasis goes on getting back 3 OLYMPIC SPOTS. The point of the team that went to worlds in 09 was to obtain 3 spots for the olympic team in 2010. One big blunder was sending Alissa instead of Caroline. (I also believe Alissa placed 11th at 09 Worlds, not 10th--I believe Elene was 10th).

    I'm pretty certain that Caroline could have at least matched Alissa's technical content in LA, even if Caroline bombed, because Alissa fell twice in the short and only landed 3 clean ratified triples in the long.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The problem I see at the moment is while her jumps are getting better, her speed hasnt really improved, and while some of her spins like the Pearl Spin are still spectacular some arent what they had been before at the moment. Still she has many special qualities. It would be a shame if such a talented skater did not win atleast one World medal- even if a bronze. To me she is a standout skater, even with her flaws. And given her age she could be around another 7.5 years as an amateur as I said.
    Well, you know, I keep on thinking about Morozov's work with Ando, and Tarasova's work with Yagudin and Cohen. Both coaches wanted to see beautiful elements from their students; arm movements, footwork, and spins that emphasize the music and are performed with attention and care. To her credit, Caroline seemed to be going in that direction early in her career as well, but her increasing focus on jumps and speed has most certainly turned her attention away from perfecting the above-mentioned elements. I definitely think she would benefit from intensive and long-term work with a choreographer. All that said, it seems she has a lot of different things to work on at the same time and it has to be difficult. Still, I hope that she doesn't lose sight of the other aspects of skating while working on jumps and speed.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    One great thing for her is how young she is. She could be competing another 8 seasons. I do think she could win a World medal someday and make an Olympic team and finish in the top 5. She is capable of atleast a Suguri like career in the end IMO.
    O Suguri...and her career's still going strong!!!....well... still going Love her though ahaha!

  10. #30
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    When I watched Zhang's latest programs on Youtube I was expecting the jump technique to be significantly bettr due to all the comments I read about it on FSU, but honestly I see the same sloppy wobbly landings and the same ridiculous mule kick.

    That and she's gotten rather wide across the shoulder and put on a whole bunch of weight. She's grown a whole lot but her artistry is still that of a 12 year old.

    Now she doesn't have the flexibility she used to have so she doesn't even have her "wow" moves and her spins are noticeably slower.

    When Zhang first came onto the scene I thought she might become one of my favorites, a new Sasha Cohen perhaps, despite the fact that I'm vocal about despising her personality I've always expected to liking her skating. However...not only iss he dull and flat, her technique sucks and she's now lost the cuteness of the "baby princess" skater, bulked up in a non-elegant fashion and lost her few "wow" moves.

    She'll never get over all those obstacles. Most skaters who have crappy jump technique at least have redeeming artistry, or a good personality you can really root for. This girl has absolutely *nothing*.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post

    She'll never get over all those obstacles. Most skaters who have crappy jump technique at least have redeeming artistry, or a good personality you can really root for. This girl has absolutely *nothing*.

    Wow, so much vitriol for a teenaged girl.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
    When I watched Zhang's latest programs on Youtube I was expecting the jump technique to be significantly bettr due to all the comments I read about it on FSU, but honestly I see the same sloppy wobbly landings and the same ridiculous mule kick.
    Erm were we watching the same programme? Her lutz is a work in progress but I thought her Flip looked perfectly fine and mule-kick-less. Her jumps looked better to me in general, with a wee bit more speed and height, sans 2A

    I don't understand why you have to be so disparaging. She is trying! Improvements don't take place overnight; Joannie took 2 seasons to correct her lutz. I'm frankly astonished at the progress on her jumps, I thought she would never be able to correct them. She has also grown a lot; I didn't recognize her at all at NHK. It's going to take a while for her to get used to it.

    I think we've seen the best of Caroline because there's a huge number of talented juniors both in the US as well as internationally, plus the current seniors. I hope she proves me otherwise though.

  13. #33
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    ^ This quad is certainly going to be VERY interesting. The US has like a billion newcomers and 5 top senior ladies. Russia has its jumping beans. Japan is still holding strong with Miki, Asada, and Suzuki. And besides that everyone is working on their jump technique...

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ^ This quad is certainly going to be VERY interesting. The US has like a billion newcomers and 5 top senior ladies. Russia has its jumping beans. Japan is still holding strong with Miki, Asada, and Suzuki. And besides that everyone is working on their jump technique...
    Don't forget Murakami and Imai, I've been very impressed with both so far.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
    not only iss he dull and flat, her technique sucks and she's now lost the cuteness of the "baby princess" skater, bulked up in a non-elegant fashion and lost her few "wow" moves. Most skaters who have crappy jump technique at least have redeeming artistry..
    tangerine dream, while others may not like the tone of your message, and it is certainly negative, I have to say I am glad you wrote this. I am afraid that what you see is also what the judges see. Artistry, flexibility, "wow moves," and most importantly the ability to engage the audience are all key to success.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
    When I watched Zhang's latest programs on Youtube I was expecting the jump technique to be significantly bettr due to all the comments I read about it on FSU, but honestly I see the same sloppy wobbly landings and the same ridiculous mule kick.
    That is not true.
    Her jumps will never be good since she doesn't have any power in her legs. But she has improved on the mule kick. And at NHK, her 3Flip looked absolutely normal to me.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Her jumps will never be good ...............
    Oh really ............. Can you help me out with tonight's lottery numbers?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    The US entered LA Worlds with 2 spots based on the 2008 Worlds results and they left the LA Worlds with 2 spots. Czisny didn't lose anything that was not already lost. Zhang may have fared the same or even worse in LA . . . you just never know. Worlds pressure is not the same as 4CC or Grand Prix event pressure. Skaters rise and fall from one event to the next.

    Hello, the USA had to send a B team to 2008 worlds due to age limits so no one could expect us to qualify 3 girls for 2009 worlds doing that.

    Czisny is definitely to blame for costing the USA 3 spots for the 2010 Olympics. Was it to much to ask from her to finish top 8 when she went into the event as our champion? Obviously it was.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    Oh really ............. Can you help me out with tonight's lottery numbers?
    LOL
    Well, lottery is a thing of equiprobability, every number as the same probability to appear. This is not the same with our body.
    Sorry, but we all have qualities and flaws, Caroline has no power, that's a fact ! She can improve, but I don't think she will ever be good in term of power.
    So, I can add : IMO, her jumps will never be good.
    And really, if she can have good jumps, I'll be happy for her !

  20. #40
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    Wow only 2 people think Zhang will win a World title someday. That is very surprising.

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