Can Hanyu and Murakami make the world team this year & if so, who would they replace?

[pinky166]

I actually think Kozuka is better than Oda, at least in terms of presentation, performance, PCS. Oda is a great jumper but he's so small and almost shy on the ice that his performances never really draw me in. Chaplin worked pretty well for him but was also a bit juniorish, I know it must be hard when one is so small and looks so young, but this more mature FS Oda has this season just seems pretty boring. I do like his SP though.

[NMURA]

If past history is any indication Oda is losing to 4 fall Chan while skating alot better than he will in January since his skating is always better in October than in January.

Wait, it was HomeCooking Skate Chanada. Oda will beat 4 falls Chan in Tokyo. And if past history is any indication, Chan ALWAYS skates poorly in Asia. He can be easily put off world podium if he skates like Skate Chanada.

[Ziggy]

I actually think Kozuka is better than Oda, at least in terms of presentation, performance, PCS. Oda is a great jumper but he's so small and almost shy on the ice that his performances never really draw me in. Chaplin worked pretty well for him but was also a bit juniorish, I know it must be hard when one is so small and looks so young, but this more mature FS Oda has this season just seems pretty boring. I do like his SP though.

I agree.

I think Kozuka is generally very undermarked on the PCS. Probably because he's not outgoing and expressive.

But his basics are good and he usually does skate to the music.

Do people really need to do hip thrusts in order to get recognised?

As for losing to 4 falls Chan, well most currently competing skaters would.

Takahashi is the only skater at present who gets PCS as high as Chan from the judges, falls or not.

[Marco]

Kozuka skates just as fast as Oda but the quality and complexity of his skating is so much superior.

Kozuka needs to get rid of the labelling as Japan's #3, if he wants to get high PCS (which he deserves). To me, the only reasons Oda is ahead of Kozuka on the pecking order are that (1) he became a senior first and immediately came close to medalling at Worlds and winning GPs; (2) he was more consistent and flashy [jumps, choreography].

It's almost the same way Lysacek was pecked ahead of Abbott and how Chan beat Rippon in Skate Chanada.

[judgejudy27]

As for losing to 4 falls Chan, well most currently competing skaters would.

If so that is a sad reflection on either the current state of mens field or the quality of judging, or perhaps both (and for the record I thought Chan's win at this years Skate Canada was a huge farce).

Chan was a distant 5th at the Olympics in Canada with less than 3 falls worth of mistakes over the 2 programs but of course Plushenko, Lysacek, Lambiel, and Weir were all there, in addition to all the current remaining skaters.

[Marco]

If so that is a sad reflection on either the current state of mens field or the quality of judging, or perhaps both (and for the record I thought Chan's win at this years Skate Canada was a huge farce).

If someone can fall twice and still win Olympic silver, I don't think falling 4 times and winning an easy season GP without much real competition is anything too worrying. And Chan is 10 tens the skater Cohen was.

I thnk Rippon was undermarked at Skate Chanada, but I would be hard pressed to place Chan lower than second (or below Oda) anyway.

[judgejudy27]

The 2006 womens figure skating event was shockingly appaling even without considering it was missing 3 of the best skaters in the World at the time, and Cohen was lucky her 2nd actual fall wasnt deemed as a fall considering she barely won silver as it was.

It is interesting you seemed like a fan of Oda when he was coming up, I remember you posting about him excitedly back in fall of 2006 but you seem to have gone cold on him over the years (as alot of people have).

The Skate Canada mens field might seem weak but then again it begs the question who are the big guns outside of Takahashi and Chan now anyway. Joubert if he isnt really past his prime now I guess, and not sure who else at the moment. There isnt even another former World medalist in the field left.

[Marco]

It is interesting you seemed like a fan of Oda when he was coming up, I remember you posting about him excitedly back in fall of 2006 but you seem to have gone cold on him over the years (as alot of people have).

I like Oda as a technical skater but he has no advancement in artistic ability and his programs and expressions have sucked since 2007. Zatoichi was such a great program and it was his last great program.

The Skate Canada mens field might seem weak but then again it begs the question who are the big guns outside of Takahashi and Chan now anyway. Joubert if he isnt really past his prime now I guess, and not sure who else at the moment. There isnt even another former World medalist in the field left.

Chan is the highest placed skater at Olympics and Worlds to have competed at Skate Chanada and may I say, the best. To me he and Oda are both technical skaters with poor artistry. But at least Chan shows off his great skating while skating to incredibly complex programs and deserved his PCS advantage over Oda.

Having said that, so long as Oda lands the quad, I am sure he will stay in medal contention at Worlds this season. Same for Joubert and Verner. I also really hope Abbott can contend but to even be considered he needs to ahve a consistent season.

The 2006 womens figure skating event was shockingly appaling even without considering it was missing 3 of the best skaters in the World at the time, and Cohen was lucky her 2nd actual fall wasnt deemed as a fall considering she barely won silver as it was.

Chan beating Rippon and Oda is like Cohen beating Suguri and Slutskaya.

[pinky166]

As for losing to 4 falls Chan, well most currently competing skaters would.

Takahashi is the only skater at present who gets PCS as high as Chan from the judges, falls or not.

And Lysacek, although I have no idea how that happened. He went from getting Oda PCS to Takahashi/Chan PCS over the course of a few competitions. If only Rippon could manage to do the same.

[judgejudy27]

Lysacek is one of the greatest and most consistent skaters of the last decade. It is no surprise he got some of the highest PCS reflecting his superiority.

[pinky166]

Lysacek is one of the greatest and most consistent skaters of the last decade. It is no surprise he got some of the highest PCS reflecting his superiority.

I'm not saying he didn't deserve the huge PCS, I more just find the sudden meteoric rise in his PCS interesting.

[judgejudy27]

I think his PCS went up since his skating improved and since the judges respect his consistency. Also from 2008 to 2010 alot of skaters either gradually retired or went in decline or were inconsistent as heck which helped him a great deal move up the pecking order.

[Ziggy]

Rippon zzzzzzed his way through both of his programs at SC and Chan totally deserved to destroy him on all the PCS.

His basics are obviously far superior and both of his programs were better constructed, had more transitions and were skated more on the music than Rippon's.

Marco - Exactly. Oda's last (and only) two great programs were Super Mario Bros and Zatoichi the season he won Junior Worlds.

I guess the idea afterwards was to make him more "sophisticated" but he just can't do subtle, classical music.

[skateboy]

The 2006 womens figure skating event was shockingly appaling even without considering it was missing 3 of the best skaters in the World at the time,

Are you talking about Olys? Which "three of the best skaters in the world at the time" are you talking about?

[Marco]

Are you talking about Olys? Which "three of the best skaters in the world at the time" are you talking about?

Michelle Kwan, Michelle Kwan and Michelle Kwan.

(I think the intention was to include the age ineligible Mao Asada and Yuna Kim)

[judgejudy27]

Are you talking about Olys? Which "three of the best skaters in the world at the time" are you talking about?

Obviously Mao Asada who was a combined 5-1 vs Slutskaya, Asada, and Arakawa that season (her only loss to the 15 month god mode version of Slutskaya who was long dead by the time of the Olympics). As well Michelle Kwan and Yu Na Kim who beat Asada at that seasons World Juniors. Not neccessarily the 3 best, but 3 of the best, along with the 3 medalists at the Olympics themselves. Having those other 3 in the event would have made it far more competitive and given the performances of the 3 medalists probably shook up the podium somewhat. Kim and Kwan imparticular probably would have needed Cohen and Slutskaya to make mistakes to have a hope to medal in Torino but that is what happened.

[Marco]

Marco - Exactly. Oda's last (and only) two great programs were Super Mario Bros and Zatoichi the season he won Junior Worlds.

I guess the idea afterwards was to make him more "sophisticated" but he just can't do subtle, classical music.

I think he was missing a personality on the ice. And that's OK if at least his programs are cleverly constructed to display quality / ability to execute difficult choreography. (Just like Chan) But sigh...

And I was upset that he didn't go for the quad more last season. He was obviously going to take the Joubert and Plushenko route and jump his way to a medal (and with quality too) but instead he stayed conservative while skating to no program at all. It's like he was aiming at 6th place at best.

And in fact he is very much like Sasha Cohen. Has all it takes to win and almost always wins a GP medal etc but just can't make it work at the big comps. At least Sasha Cohen medalled at her 3rd worlds.

[Marco]

Kozuka's convincing victory over Verner and Joubert should mean something, so should those competitive PCS.

[Ziggy]

Kozuka's convincing victory over Verner and Joubert should mean something, so should those competitive PCS.

He's FINALLY getting the PCS he deserves.

About freakin' time!!!!!

[burntBREAD]

He's FINALLY getting the PCS he deserves.

About freakin' time!!!!!

Akiko's PCS is going up too!