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  1. #1
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    Jump sequence question

    Hey everyone,

    For those familiar with the new rules for this season, how would the following be scored/judged if someone attempts it:

    3toe-2loop-1/2 loop-2sal?

    would it count for no points?

    Thanks!

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    No points because it will be called as a 4 jump combo and the max jump combo allowed is 3.

  3. #3
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    That's what I thought, thanks!

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    I think that would be considered a 4 jump combination and the max allowed is a 3 jump combination.

    New Rule
    Jump Combinations and Jump Sequences A jump combination may consist of the same or another single, double, triple or quadruple jump. There may be up to three jump combinations or jump sequences in the Free Program. One jump combination could consist of up to three (3) jumps, the other two up to two (2) jumps.
    I think it would receive zero

    This season Joannie's 3T...1/2Loop...3S is considered a 3 jump combination

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    I would have thought that the first 2 jumps would be counted but the last one would have been left off and the 1/2 loop only counts if it connects another jump.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    No points because it will be called as a 4 jump combo and the max jump combo allowed is 3.
    That sounds harsh (but may be true). You can't go from the landing of the second jump to 3sal without the half loop. So may be skaters just have to do 3t-0.5loop-3salchow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    That sounds harsh (but may be true).
    It is true. 3 is the max for jump combination in FS. 2 is the max for SP.

    If a single skater did 3 jump combo in SP, he/she would receive no mark for the illegal element.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    It is true. 3 is the max for jump combination in FS. 2 is the max for SP.

    If a single skater did 3 jump combo in SP, he/she would receive no mark for the illegal element.
    The judges would probably have to give it -3 because it doesn't fulfill the requirements. But the technical panel could probably call the first two jumps.

    However any skater who put a 3 jump combo in an SP is an idiot because they should know that rule by the time they start doing an SP.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    But the technical panel could probably call the first two jumps.
    They could not. It's an illegal element for FS.

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    Jump combination can consist of up to 3 jumps.

    Jump sequence can consist of 2 jumps.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Jump sequence can consist of 2 jumps.
    I thoguht Shawn Sawyer got credited with a 3flip half loop 3loop sequence at NHK?

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    The difference between a sequence and a combination will never completely register in my mind. Especially because of the post above mine.

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    A jump sequence has no listed jumps between the two main jumps. Things like 1/2 flips, mazurkas, falling leafs, waltz jumps, etc.

    Combination the second jump is done immediately after the first jump - nothing in between.

    What was the sequence that Marina Keilman used to do? She had some funky thing with 1/2 dozen little jumps.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    So a sequence is something like 3F-3T, while a combination is something like 3T-1/2Lo-3S?

    Did I just mix that up? I always do. I just refer to them all as "jumps."

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    So a sequence is something like 3F-3T, while a combination is something like 3T-1/2Lo-3S?
    Both are combos.

    A 2axel done right after another 2axel is a sequence.

  16. #16

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    The 1/2 loop is now recognised as a jump when done in a sequence. But only when it connects another jump after it.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    So a sequence is something like 3F-3T, while a combination is something like 3T-1/2Lo-3S?

    Did I just mix that up? I always do. I just refer to them all as "jumps."
    Here are some examples.

    3F-3T: Combination, since there is no step between these two jumps. To avoid a step between two jumps, the second jump should be either T or Lo. Another example would be 3Lz-2T-2Lo.

    2A-2A: Sequence. To do the second 2A, the skater has to insert a step to change the jumping foot. This step gives some breathing room to the skater, so a sequence is considered easier than a combination. Only 80% of the sum of two jump values are credited.

    3T-1/2Lo-3S: In the past, this pattern was considered as a sequence. However, doing 1/2Lo between two jumps is definitely more difficult than inserting a step between two jumps. They changed the rule this year and decided to regard First jump-1/2Lo-Third jump as a combination when they calculate the points.

    What if a skater makes a mistake during a jump/jumps?

    3F with step out - 3T: Is considered as a sequence instead of a combination. Will loose GOE and 20% of the base value.

    3A fall + another 3A try: Some skaters with less experience would try the same jump again when she/he fails the first time. Then the jumps will be considered as a sequence. Since only three combinations or sequences are permitted for a free program (or one for a short program), there is a possibility that this kind of repetition would make the last combination/sequence invalid.
    Last edited by seabm7; 10-28-2010 at 06:27 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedge View Post
    This season Joannie's 3T...1/2Loop...3S is considered a 3 jump combination
    I think that's a much more interesting 3-jump combination than the 3/2/2' and 2A/2/2's. Very few skaters get any glide between the three jumps.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I think that's a much more interesting 3-jump combination than the 3/2/2' and 2A/2/2's. Very few skaters get any glide between the three jumps.
    I love the rhythm and energy of that jump set from Joannie.

    It went up in value by about 2.2 points as well..moving from 80% to 100%
    Base value 7.48 at Olympics
    Base value 9.68 at Japan Open

    Plus she can now say she has a 3/3.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I thoguht Shawn Sawyer got credited with a 3flip half loop 3loop sequence at NHK?
    That is now a combination (from this season).

    Half-loop is now being called as 1Lo.

    Therefore his sequence was called as a: 3F+1Lo+3Lo+COMBO

    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    The difference between a sequence and a combination will never completely register in my mind. Especially because of the post above mine.
    A combination is when a second (or third) jump is performed exactly off the landing edge of the preceding jump.

    Which means that only toe-loops and loops are an option as a second jump in combinations. In order to do any other jump as a second (or third) one, you would need to add some non-listed jumps or steps in-between.

    And if you do add any steps or non-listed jumps between the two jumps, that becomes a jump sequence and not a combination.

    The only exception is what I've written above.

    From this season, ISU has decided that half-loop is going to be called as if it was a single loop. Which in effect means that skaters like Rochette, who do a 3toe/half-loop/3salchow sequence are not going to be penalised for doing so any more (jump sequences are only worth 80% of the combined base jump value).
    Last edited by Ziggy; 10-28-2010 at 04:41 PM.

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