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  1. #21

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    Thanks for the translation! It sounds like he's angling for a job to me -

    I see this is being discussed above, but what does he mean when he says they look like a junior team? I thought that meant they skate without real power and flow across the ice - and maybe with a weak interpretation of the music. They IN NO WAY skate like a junior team using this definition. So I wonder what he was talking about.

  2. #22
    I <3 Kozuka
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Maybe because Igor's way it to make his students skate the same steps over and over again, never changing anything from one year to another ? Wich makes getting the levels too easy with some little adjustments ...
    If it were so easy and the changes were so few, we wouldn't hear such moaning every freaking year about how the many, many rule changes are so difficult to follow and adapt to and so beyond their understanding.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    they are trying but...
    Test skate (1.56)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlnspvElPoU
    NHK Trophy (2.44)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WP3IUC8qjo
    Thanks for the links - interesting comparison. I definitely like the NHK version better. I'm sure the FD will improve as well - with or without Staviski.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    The latter. Elena has tons of confidence! Their presentation and carriage is very mature, IMO. I don't see anything juniorish in their skating. They have flaws just like anyone else but they look like seniors with flaws. Cappellini & La Notte for example look juniorish, even though they've been out of juniors for 5 years. I&K's expression is natural, I don't feel like they are playing at ballet, I really get the sense of Elena being a prima ballerina (with ugly lifts ) and Nikita presenting her, as a man.

    I don't really understand what he meant by "professionals" either.
    Neither do I.

    I should have read this before I posted - I agree with everything you said. I thought they looked great in their senior debut. The biggest problem I have with them or their programs is the lifts in the FD which I'm sure will be fixed soon.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinami Amori View Post
    We will never see a convincing Carmina Burana from them, or Turandot, or La Reine Margot….
    Thanks god for that. Another Carmina Burana is the last thing we need right now.

  6. #26
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    Who was the technical specialist at NHK?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    Who was the technical specialist at NHK?
    From ISU website -

    Referee - Ms. Alla SHEKHOVTSEVA
    Technical Controller - Ms. Christine HURTH
    Technical Specialist - Mr. Andrzej DOSTATNI
    Asst Tech Specialist - Ms. Ayako HIGASHINO

    I'm not sure what the difference is bet Controller and Specialist - all 3 of them decide the levels from what I understand. The Referee really doesnt do much - unless she's the one with the stop watch? Who times the lifts?

  8. #28

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    Why are people freaking out so much that they lost a medal (barely) at their first senior GP event? Some of the reactions in the PBP thread were so over-the-top and of course the attacks against the Shibs started coming (and of course on Igor and Maria) that were reactionary to them placing higher. It makes me think that the expectations for Ilynyh/Katsalapov are incredibly high.

    This is coming from someone who fell in love with I&K the moment she came out in her prison garb for Schindler's List.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 10-26-2010 at 07:40 AM.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  9. #29

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    Who's freaking out?

  10. #30

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    Maybe I'm getting the wrong vibe, but it seems that people have been scrambling to explain how they lost a medal at NHK. From blaming Zhulin's lack of preparedness to criticizing Igor's skaters and coaching in order to justify them not looking as ready as his teams (they all do the same steps, they're boring, etc. unlike the artistic Europeans), and even talking about how I&K should leave Zhulin and move to another coaching team (I read Krylova as a possibility). I even heard their loss to the Shibs being described as "shocking" and people saying how it is unfortunate that they had to debut (as seniors) with a Golden Waltz.

    Again, maybe I'm just misreading here, but it seems people are sort of freaking out that I&K are still cooking and aren't quite ready to become the champions people are sure they'll be by 2012. I mean look at this thread and how some are just perplexed that Staviski dare say that they still skate like juniors or "not like real professionals" (which is understandable to some extent) and he must have some ulterior motive for saying so despite being quite complimentary towards them.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Why are people freaking out so much that they lost a medal (barely) at their first senior GP event? Some of the reactions in the PBP thread were so over-the-top and of course the attacks against the Shibs starting coming (and of course on Igor and Maria) that were reactionary to them placing higher. It makes me think that the expectations for Ilynyh/Katsalapov are incredibly high.

    This is coming from someone who fell in love with I&K the moment she came out in her prison garb for Schindler's List.
    I agree.
    And also that the expectations are sky high for them. Not only from people on FSU but also from the Russian fed.
    I hope they don't crumble under it.
    I think the best thing that could happen to them right now is if they lost Russian Nationals to B/S so that they can mature in a small shadow for at least one more season. They are still so incredibly young and burst onto the scene in a way that must have surprised them as well. It must be very overwhelming for them right now.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    ALL I&M teams? No exceptions?
    Not so far this year
    I hate all SDs so that has nothing to do with Igor or Marina, but so far, the free dance I saw are boring me to death from their camp
    Which annoys me a lot concerning Davis / White.

    As for I&K, they always have a rough season's debut. Remember last years they look a bit undertrained, like Nathalie and Fabian BTW.
    Staviski is helping out all skaters with Zhulin, so I don't see why he's not helping them get new lifts or refine the ones they have. Although, since they are very young, I can understand why it would be a bit dangerous to go for things more demanding.
    They still skate juniorish in terms of speed and ice coverage. But presentation wise, they already are the best of the best. Many ice dancers should look at them and try to learn what she's doing and how he's handling it
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  13. #33

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    Well I think its ridiculous for people to blame Igor or the Shibs for this one. I got to say that I'd blame Zhulin more. Yes perhaps more demanding lifts aren't necessarily right for this moment, but they could at least have DIFFERENT lifts that actually fit the music and the program.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Maybe I'm getting the wrong vibe, [etc]
    To me - this is just having a discussion - like we always do around here.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    From ISU website -

    Referee - Ms. Alla SHEKHOVTSEVA
    Technical Controller - Ms. Christine HURTH
    Technical Specialist - Mr. Andrzej DOSTATNI
    Asst Tech Specialist - Ms. Ayako HIGASHINO

    I'm not sure what the difference is bet Controller and Specialist - all 3 of them decide the levels from what I understand. The Referee really doesnt do much - unless she's the one with the stop watch? Who times the lifts?
    All except the referee contribute to the level calls, but it is the Tech Specialist who has the final say! The others are advisors, the Tech Specialist can override anything they decide if he disagrees!

  16. #36

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    – The Technical Specialist, assisted by the Assistant Technical Specialist identifies and calls the performed elements;
    – identifies and calls correct Levels of Difficulty of certain performed elements (eg. spins, footwork);
    – identifies illegal elements, additional elements; falls and also new, innovative elements

    – The Technical Controller authorizes or corrects the deletion of elements;
    – supervises the Technical Specialists and Data Operator and proposes corrections, if necessary, respecting any performed element and Level of Difficulty identified by the acting Technical Specialist and Assistant Technical Specialist. However, if both Technical Specialists disagree with a correction asked for by the Technical Controller, the initial decision of the Technical Specialist and Assistant Technical Specialist stands;
    In the case a disagreement about an element and/or Level of difficulty exists between the Technical Specialist and Assistant Technical Specialist, the decision of the Technical Controller prevails;
    – authorizes or corrects the identification of illegal elements; falls and innovative elements
    This is from the ISU website

    I guess you can say look how I/K lost the JGPF and then how they won JR worlds. They have a month to get to the level people expect of them.

  17. #37

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    Deleted because Casey Edwards cleared it up. Thanks

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Why are people freaking out so much that they lost a medal (barely) at their first senior GP event? Some of the reactions in the PBP thread were so over-the-top and of course the attacks against the Shibs started coming (and of course on Igor and Maria) that were reactionary to them placing higher. It makes me think that the expectations for Ilynyh/Katsalapov are incredibly high.

    This is coming from someone who fell in love with I&K the moment she came out in her prison garb for Schindler's List.
    Think after the Vancouver failure the expectations are set high by the Russian federation. They need new names and they need those names fast. It seems Ilinyh/Katsalapov (at least right now) are their only chance. Assume they will be pushed towards Russia n.1 and for that they would need at least to well, medal somewhere.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    ALL I&M teams? No exceptions?
    Yes.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Well I think its ridiculous for people to blame Igor or the Shibs for this one. I got to say that I'd blame Zhulin more. Yes perhaps more demanding lifts aren't necessarily right for this moment, but they could at least have DIFFERENT lifts that actually fit the music and the program.
    Why must we blame anyone. They are a relatively new team (just two years together I think) just out of juniors and they finished fourth in their first senior event. Last time I checked that was a good result even an excellent one. Virtue/Moir finished fourth at a GP event in their first year as seniors and we're second at nationals. Look where did ended up four years later. I wish people would back of and let I/K grow. Besides it's the first GP of the season, everyone had rough patches. Like you Hedwig, I think it might help them if Bobrova/Soloviev won nationals so it could take some of the pressure off. Anyhow, I am not the least bit worried for I/K. Just look at last year, they lost the JGPF and nationals to Monko/Khaliavin and then obliterated them at JW. I think that once worlds comes around, these two could be quite a threat. And it they're not, it's not a big deal. They are first year seniors. They just need time.

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