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  1. #41
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    Honestly I don't get all the hype around this team. And I don't get why everyone is so desperate to see them as Olympic champions or medalists in 4 years. What if they have dull programs? What if they stop developing? What if they become the next K/N or D/S?
    and what about D/W and V/M? why does everyone think those teams won't be there, or won't be that good any more in 4 years? they are all still so young!! why putting so much on the teenagers, when you have those under 25 wonderkids still growing in front of your eyes?!
    To be honest, I would rather see I/K and S/S stay in juniors for one more season at least. They would have more time to grow. Putting so much pressure on so young skaters is terrible.
    And I/K are not as impressive as I thought they would be when heard how delighted everyone was about them. Their SD in unwatchable and their FD lacks emotion. They surely still are juniorish. But that's not a bad thing! Ice dance couples grow slowly and the most beautiful dances still come out from the most mature/oldest teams. I love 30 year olds in ice dancing, cause their emotion is real. All teenagers can do is amaze us with their sweetness, like the Shibs. But then it might be difficult to grow out of the sweetness and in the end we get the sugary Mahler as Olympic gold winning FD

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    Honestly I don't get all the hype around this team. And I don't get why everyone is so desperate to see them as Olympic champions or medalists in 4 years. What if they have dull programs? What if they stop developing? What if they become the next K/N or D/S?
    I have never got a sense of desperation with regard to I/K, more one of excitement about a team with great promise. However, I do agree that they are being eyed as the next great thing in ice dance and the 2014 ice dance champions.

    With that in mind I couldn't help but compare them to V/M's senior debut in 2007 with Valse Triste. And they really don't compare. I/K do look very juniorish and are not very connected to each other, whereas Tessa and Scott showed amazing polish and maturity. And D/W also made a big impression that season and skated with maturity and sophistication.

    So for now I remain unconvinced that I/K are the next great thing in ice dance.

    and what about D/W and V/M? why does everyone think those teams won't be there, or won't be that good any more in 4 years?
    The Olympics are in Russia, so if a Russian team scoots up the rankings like V/M and D/W did, they may be podium contenders may become the favourite.

    I love 30 year olds in ice dancing, cause their emotion is real. All teenagers can do is amaze us with their sweetness, like the Shibs. But then it might be difficult to grow out of the sweetness and in the end we get the sugary Mahler as Olympic gold winning FD
    I thought Mahler was a masterpiece and found it very subtle rather than surgery. No, Virtue and Moir do not have the maturity of 30 year olds. But their talent is remarkable and they can only get better. They and D/W are in a league of their own.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Staviski is helping out all skaters with Zhulin, so I don't see why he's not helping them get new lifts or refine the ones they have. Although, since they are very young, I can understand why it would be a bit dangerous to go for things more demanding.
    A lot of people have said this about their lifts. Why is that? Do people think she's still going to grow? Or that his back can't take it? I never really thought about age being a factor in dance lifts. I always think of younger skaters as fearless. In singles for example, juniors try 3-3s, 3axels, and quads. Did V&M's lifts get more complicated as they got older?

    I guess thinking back, some of the couples that were the best at lifts were indeed older - DelSchoes, DenSta, and D&L. Interesting.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    With that in mind I couldn't help but compare them to V/M's senior debut in 2007 with Valse Triste. And they really don't compare. I/K do look very juniorish and are not very connected to each other, whereas Tessa and Scott showed amazing polish and maturity. And D/W also made a big impression that season and skated with maturity and sophistication.
    oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. I totally agree with you on this one - V/M and D/W were already noticeable and prominsing in their first senior season. I/K are somehow not. Not yet.

    I thought Mahler was a masterpiece and found it very subtle rather than surgery. No, Virtue and Moir do not have the maturity of 30 year olds. But their talent is remarkable and they can only get better. They and D/W are in a league of their own.
    Sugary, not surgery. meaning with lots and lots of unnecessary sweetness on it. I liked it in Valse Triste (the teenage thing), it became a little annoying in Umbrellas and finally made me laugh in Mahler. I meant, it was cool when they were younger, but if you wanna grow as an ice dancer, you have to give up the sweetness one day.
    Which of course doesn't mean V/M and D/W are not perfect, cause they are and those 30 year olds can look up to them in some elements. But I'm still looking forward to them gaining the maturity of DelShoes, Kerrs, F/S and others.

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    Thank you for the translation TAHbKA

    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    With that in mind I couldn't help but compare them to V/M's senior debut in 2007 with Valse Triste. And they really don't compare. I/K do look very juniorish and are not very connected to each other, whereas Tessa and Scott showed amazing polish and maturity. And D/W also made a big impression that season and skated with maturity and sophistication.
    V/M debut was really great but if we have to compare them with I/K we also have to consider how many years they,ve skated together before entering their firt senior competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    So for now I remain unconvinced that I/K are the next great thing in ice dance.
    Just give them little time and they maybe will

    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    The Olympics are in Russia, so if a Russian team scoots up the rankings like V/M and D/W did, they may be podium contenders may become the favourite.
    I/K are doing their best but we still have 3-4 seasons before 2014O G and is too soon to predict or asume anything.
    Last edited by vivika1982; 10-27-2010 at 12:22 AM.

  6. #46
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    Well, all the discussion seems like the over reaction of the year so far. My impression from the competition of I/K's NHK performance was, first year senior team comes 4th, they got 3rd best PCS narrowly losing 2nd highest PCS to more established team and had very high GOE as well. Program was very different from all the others and I loved it.

    As many have pointed out it needs some work especially the lifts and spin. Step sequence hopefully will improve as well. As for not getting Lvl 4s, Hmm they were one of 2 teams to get lvl 4s for all the elements in both OD and FD last year in the same competition (along with Bobrova and Soleviev), so they are very capable of getting Lvl 4s.

    I will wait till at least europeans to passing any judgement on their program.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivika1982 View Post
    Thank you for the translation TAHbKA
    I/K are doing their best but we still have 3-4 seasons before 2014O G and is too soon to predict or asume anything.
    Ditto to both. 4 years is a long time; anything can happen! I'm just going to sit and enjoy the ride.

    That said, I'm not particularly impressed by either of their programmes this season. I could certainly do without the ghastly SD music (better yet, get rid of the whole SD concept altogether) and I much prefer Schindler's List to Don Q. And I certainly hope they'll be able to put in new lifts that better reflect their ballet-themed FD.

    I don't get the hate for the Shpilband camp skaters or their choreography. I don't always like every single programme they do but generally it's alright. I'd watch a Shpilband programme over a Linichuk one. Not all European teams have wonderful programmes either (I haven't forgotten K/N from last season). I hardly think P/B or C/L's FDs last season are masterpieces but that's just me.

    Slightly off-topic: Does anyone agree with me that D/W and V/M really benefitted rankings wise from the spate of retirements/ injuries after the 07-08 season? I imagine I/K might have a harder time moving up the ranks if the senior teams don't retire; D/W for one will probably go for Sochi. And they (as well as V/M) aren't the kind to rest on their laurels.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    Honestly I don't get all the hype around this team. And I don't get why everyone is so desperate to see them as Olympic champions or medalists in 4 years. What if they have dull programs? What if they stop developing? What if they become the next K/N or D/S?
    and what about D/W and V/M? why does everyone think those teams won't be there, or won't be that good any more in 4 years? they are all still so young!! why putting so much on the teenagers, when you have those under 25 wonderkids still growing in front of your eyes?!
    To be honest, I would rather see I/K and S/S stay in juniors for one more season at least. They would have more time to grow. Putting so much pressure on so young skaters is terrible.
    And I/K are not as impressive as I thought they would be when heard how delighted everyone was about them. Their SD in unwatchable and their FD lacks emotion. They surely still are juniorish. But that's not a bad thing! Ice dance couples grow slowly and the most beautiful dances still come out from the most mature/oldest teams. I love 30 year olds in ice dancing, cause their emotion is real. All teenagers can do is amaze us with their sweetness, like the Shibs. But then it might be difficult to grow out of the sweetness and in the end we get the sugary Mahler as Olympic gold winning FD
    You won't like my answer at all.

    Because so far, V&M and D&W are doing the same program over and over again. They are, ice dance wise, BORING to death.
    Which is BTW a shame considering their abilities.
    There is no excitment when they skate (but for D&W on some programs like last year's OD). They don't bring anything new to the sport, or maybe you could say that they brought the fact that all you had to do is to skate to the same program every year to finally win. Because that's what they did.
    And I'm sorry, but IMO D&W and V&M debut looked as juniorish to me as it does with I&K (I saw V&M at their first TEB, it was painfully junior skating to me, in a year with mainly juniors at TEB BTW).

    I&K on the other hand ARE exciting, by the way they approach the artistic side of ice dance. It's something no one does better than the russians. And they have an amazing artistic flare for skaters that young.
    So yeah, they have work to do in ice coverage, lifts and some other elements. Which isn't something very newsflash to me.
    What's interesting is watching them develop during the season. I wouldn't be surprised to see them reach a top 5 at worlds if they improve like they did last year ....
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I thought Mahler was a masterpiece and found it very subtle rather than surgery.
    It defined "sugary."

    Only Zueva could create a cheesy love story out of music that subtle and haunting.

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    I will be very much in the minority and say that I think I/K have a great FD. I think the concept is great. They have A LOT of work ahead of them, and that's a good thing in itself. Their skate in Russia was almost incoherent; their skate at NHK made me understand where they need to go to perfect the program. It all needs to be much sharper- every music change should bring new style, they should work on leg extensions etc etc. And of course they should chenge at least some lifts to make them more striking- otherwise they will not measure up to S/Z's teams. BUT - I think the program will be dynamite come Worlds and it'll teach I/K A LOT.
    I do agree that I/K have great potential for theatricality in the best Russian tradition- in Sochi or later, whatever; I don't care when, as long as they get there eventually.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    I will be very much in the minority and say that I think I/K have a great FD.
    So do I!

    And I dont think we're such a minority - it's about 50-50 from what Ive read.

  12. #52
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    I have to be honest. After watching The NHK I was a bit underwhelmed All this time hearing about I/K this and that...They are a developing team for god's sake! Why are people putting so much pressure on these kids? As a team they are just not there, maybe 4-5 years down the road but not before

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    It defined "sugary."
    Not IMO. I thought it defined 'subtlety'.

    Only Zueva could create a cheesy love story out of music that subtle and haunting.
    I never saw that program as a love story, let alone a cheesy one - even it was intended as such, the theme didn't jump out at me.

    Possibly 'romantic' could be used to describe V/M's style, but I don't think of them in that way. Rather, I think of them as pure ice dancers in the sense that they are dancing to the music as opposed to engaged in dramatizations or theatrics.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Not IMO. I thought it defined 'subtlety'.
    It was about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

    I'm not crazy about Ilinykh/Katsalapov's SD, but I love the FD and think it has great potential. I've no expectations for them. I'm just enjoying them perform.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

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    Well, I personally loved Mahler and thought it was brilliant- beautiful theme, genuine, with some great nuances. Until recently i had no idea that this piece of music was supposed to be solemn and tributory, so I guess that's something Marina Zoueva should have considered. With a young team like them i don't mind so much the light and happy quality they used throughout the dance. Usually for me, the more older and mature skaters are much better when interpreting something romantic, in the cases of K/P and G/G. JMO.
    I/K's SD is unfortuantely, makes me Their FD, however, I adored the first half, but the second half lost me. it would be interesting to see how they handle with increasing difficulty on the step sequences, particularly. Elena is a gorgeous actress, and I think with him being a bit of a stronger partner than the two, make a good match. He initially struck me as someone who could develop into a mini Platov, with the same steadiness, the same fierce partner. Time will tell.

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    Nikita was also skating with a back injury at NHK, I really don't think it's time to panic yet. That said, I'd love to see what working with Maxim could do for them.

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    They worked with Maxim last season.

  18. #58

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    I have just watched I&K's programs from NHK and here are my impressions.

    I had a big problem with the choice of music for the SD. I liked the start of it and I thought it worked well for the first part of the dance, but it just did not suit at all the GW portion of the dance. Too big and too rough for that dance. They just couldn't bring up the GW portion to the music because it doesn't lend to it. And it made the GW look weak and they got lost in the power of the music. So it really ruined the overall impression.

    As for the FD, as much as I like their style and presence, I tend to agree they still look young. There is lots of potential but still much to learn. They also had problems with the elements which could be due to new lifts and also and trying work them into the program. It will get better with practise.

    Overall they have the qualities necessary to be a top dance team, but it is not quite there yet.

    And digressing to talk about the Shibutanis. Yes it was a traditional ballroom type interpretation but it was smooth, very light over the ice (which you need for that type of music) and really well performed. Very few problems and deserving of a medal. I really enjoyed it and once they really get the programmed work in and can enhance the interpretation, it is going to be great dance.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    This ballroom feel is the style i'd like the Shibutanis' to develop in the future if they are looking to reach near the top someday. Perfect vehicle for showing their great skating skills and ease of flow across the ice. Much much more suited than last year's free if you ask me.

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