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  1. #1

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    Staviski on Ilynyh/Katsalapov's skate in NHK

    Ilinyh/Katsalapov lack self confidence

    2 times world champion Maxim Staviski who represented Bulgaria with Alena Denkova thinks the Russian pair Ilinyh/Katsalapov that finished 4th in the NHK are not yet skating like real professionals.

    The first GP event - NHK Trophy finished on Sunday in Nagoya. Zhulin's students the 16y.o. Ilinyh and 19y.o Katsalapov debuted in the seniors competition and became 4th.

    "I think Ilinyh and Katsalapov are technical skaters with decent programmes, who skate well and have a bright future", said Staviski during a phone talk with the RIA News journalist. "However, I see 2 problems. First of all they still skate like juniors. They lack self confidence and presentation. They don't express themselves as professionals.
    The second problem - they need to learn some new lifts. Everything they do is good, but not interesting. They more or less copy the lifts of Zhulin's previous pupils - Navka/Kostomarov and they yet did not come up with anything new. I shall repeat - they are technically good and skate great".

    Staviski called "a work process" the fact they received low technical grade for their free dance. "The low levels means Zhulin should open the rules book and sit with the stop watch, recalculate and measure everything. We used to do that after every competition" said the 2 times world champion.

    "It's a normal thing to do", he continued "I'm sure they will clean the programmes after the competition and it won't happen again. The skaters themselves have to calculate everything and use the stop watch so they won't underhold or overhold the positions".

    Staviski added that the subjective judging had it's part in the Japanese competition. "The caller has it's opition, but if you do everything 100% clean there is nothing the caller can do" he insisted.

    Ilinyh/Katsalapov's lost to Shibutanis who the Russians beat in the last junior worlds Staviskii called a not important issue "There is no complete objectiveness in Figure Skating", he explained. "Today they lost, tomorrow they'll win".

    According to Staviskii the Golden Walts which must be performed in the SD this year shouldn't be too hard for the young Russians

    "They have good edges", he repeated again. "Their skating elements are good. The fact they are just out of juniors... well they are not the only ones, everyone goes though that stage and it's hard. The skaters have to learn alot of new things. But the learning possible and is necessary".

    Staviskii used to work as Zhulin's assistance and is ready to help again with Ilinyh/Katsalapov. "I'm lacking time, but I can come and help. Think I can give some advice" he mentioned.
    Last edited by TAHbKA; 10-25-2010 at 05:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for providing the interview TAHbKA. xoxo

  3. #3

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    Just being out of juniors didn't matter for the Shibutani's they won a medal and had a better debut than I/K. I/K not only need new lifts but better higher level lifts.

    Thanks for translation.

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    Staviski's analysis was spot on, imo. I'm still puzzled by why so many coaches & choreographers seem to not follow the picky little details in the rules that would enable their skaters to garner more points. (Or maybe they do, and the skaters just don't execute?)

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    Maybe because Igor's way it to make his students skate the same steps over and over again, never changing anything from one year to another ? Wich makes getting the levels too easy with some little adjustments ...
    While the european coach change a LOT of what they make their students skate and have more trouble getting the levels, in season's beginning. By the end of the season, they usually get the same levels if not more levels ....
    Different approach. One is gonna make ice dance die. The other isn't.$

    Shibutanis are boring to death. Like any team coached by I&M.
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    While the european coach change a LOT of what they make their students skate
    Yeah, like I&K's lifts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Shibutanis are boring to death. Like any team coached by I&M.
    ALL I&M teams? No exceptions?

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    I found I/K fascinating to watch, but I was struck by how little they looked at each other in the FD. Can't believe they are only 16 and 19.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    Staviski's analysis was spot on, imo. I'm still puzzled by why so many coaches & choreographers seem to not follow the picky little details in the rules that would enable their skaters to garner more points. (Or maybe they do, and the skaters just don't execute?)
    IMO I/K lost levels on the two of their lifts because they didn't hold the position long enough. That's what Maxim is saying when he says Zhulin must work with the stopwatch.

    There is nothing I/K can do about changing their own lifts. They are way, way too young to have a say in the choreography, so that is their coach's responsibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Yeah, like I&K's lifts.
    they are trying but...
    Test skate (1.56)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlnspvElPoU
    NHK Trophy (2.44)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WP3IUC8qjo

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Shibutanis are boring to death.
    Shibutanis are not boring yet. They may be soon, but so far the two Sunshine Kids performed a clean charming LP, and have every disposition to be adored, now and in the near future, as cute panda-bears, Judy Garlands and Shirley Temples.

    They have propensity to graduate to the “charms” of Doris Day, or Amilie or various Hollywood “feel good movies” of the 50’s or fairy tale story characters. But I don’t see them going past those type-casts due to their shape, form, personalities and relationship. We will never see a convincing Carmina Burana from them, or Turandot, or La Reine Margot….

    I/K on the other hand will probably give us lots of drama and tension in their performances in the future........ not to mention as well soon they will give many American fans many head-aches as they start climbing up the podium......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinami Amori View Post
    I/K on the other hand will probably give us lots of drama and tension in their performances in the future........ not to mention as well soon they will give many American fans many head-aches as they start climbing up the podium......
    I doubt that. We North Americans are quite used to the Russian ice dancers climbing on the podium. It's a very new thing for us to have the 1 and 2 ice dance teams, we're enjoying it!
    MERYL DAVIS AND CHARLIE WHITE - 2014 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALISTS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    [URL="http://sport.rian.ru/sport/20101025/289161904.html"]
    "I think Ilinyh and Katsalapov are technical skaters with decent programmes, who skate well and have a bright future", said Staviski during a phone talk with the RIA News journalist. "However, I see 2 problems. First of all they still skate like juniors. They lack self confidence and presentation. They don't express themselves as professionals.
    TOTALLY disagree.

    The second problem - they need to learn some new lifts. Everything they do is good, but not interesting. They more or less copy the lifts of Zhulin's previous pupils - Navka/Kostomarov and they yet did not come up with anything new. I shall repeat - they are technically good and skate great".
    They wish their lifts were as good as N&K.

    I guess Max is politiking to get on their team? That would be awesome if he and Albena would help them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~tapdancer~ View Post
    It's a very new thing for us to have the 1 and 2 ice dance teams, we're enjoying it!
    We Russians enjoying that too.... Since it never happened for Americans until they got the Russian Coaches from Russian School of Ice Dancing.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    TOTALLY disagree.
    Which do you disagree with? That they have a bright future, or that they lack self-confidence/presenation and don't express themselves as professionals?

    I don't think they lack self-confidence (at all), but they did come across as very juniorish. I thought the 'professionals' comment was a bit harsh, but that might be a translation issue (THANKS TAHbKA ), and overall I agree with the sentiment.
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinami Amori View Post
    We Russians enjoying that too.... Since it never happened for Americans until they got the Russian Coaches from Russian School of Ice Dancing.
    And I for one am thrilled with that! I love what Igor and Marina have done, I was following Igor's teams back in the 90s and enjoyed them a lot. Honestly, American ice dance back in the day was a bit dull with some exceptions...Blumberg/Seibert were amazing and always will be but we had absolutely no depth, the lower ranked teams were never competitive on the world stage.
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    I took "professionals" to mean seasoned veterans. As in they are still juniorish/amateurs. *shrugs*

    Overall, I thought they looked hesitant and a little undertrained. Their programs clearly aren't soup yet and they have a lot of room to grow.

    IMO I&K and Zhulin are getting knocked around a little because many, myself included, expected them to come out like gangbusters right out of the gate and make a big splash in their senior debut. No doubt they impressed many, but certainly not to the extent that they wowed everyone last season.

    Who knows? Maybe this is Zhulin's plan to take the pressure and expectations off of them and let them grow at their own pace.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    Which do you disagree with? That they have a bright future, or that they lack self-confidence/presenation and don't express themselves as professionals?

    I don't think they lack self-confidence (at all), but they did come across as very juniorish. I thought the 'professionals' comment was a bit harsh, but that might be a translation issue (THANKS TAHbKA ), and overall I agree with the sentiment.
    The latter. Elena has tons of confidence! Their presentation and carriage is very mature, IMO. I don't see anything juniorish in their skating. They have flaws just like anyone else but they look like seniors with flaws. Cappellini & La Notte for example look juniorish, even though they've been out of juniors for 5 years. I&K's expression is natural, I don't feel like they are playing at ballet, I really get the sense of Elena being a prima ballerina (with ugly lifts ) and Nikita presenting her, as a man.

    I don't really understand what he meant by "professionals" either.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    I took "professionals" to mean seasoned veterans. As in they are still juniorish/amateurs. *shrugs*

    Overall, I thought they looked hesitant and a little undertrained. Their programs clearly aren't soup yet and they have a lot of room to grow.

    IMO I&K and Zhulin are getting knocked around a little because many, myself included, expected them to come out like gangbusters right out of the gate and make a big splash in their senior debut. No doubt they impressed many, but certainly not to the extent that they wowed everyone last season.

    Who knows? Maybe this is Zhulin's plan to take the pressure and expectations off of them and let them grow at their own pace.
    Actually, if you watch their FD from their first JGP last year it was actually quite shakey as well. She just sold the character so damn well that it didn't matter. I was hoping they'd come out and medal, but I bet you anything that by the end of the season they are going to look a million times better I'm not particularly worried for them

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    Staviski is right on the money. It would be cool for I/K to get more input from someone like him.

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