flying camel

[fan]

hi all,

i'm just learning to do a flying camel spin. my coach has told me that i should do a full revolution on my toe of the foot i jump from, then jump onto my back foot. I have trouble staying in position for the revolution on my pick - anyone have any tips?

thanks!

[gkelly]

I've never heard of doing a full revolution on the toepick before jumping. What I have heard is to hold the forward outside edge until it curves around for a full (diminishing) circle before jumping. Is it possible that's what your coach was trying to get at?

[fan]

possibly. I will confirm and then check back.

No wonder practising it was so hard.

Thanks!

[Firefly123]

Holding the revoultion/rotating on the pick would almost certainly cause a "salchow" takeoff (a "v" mark on the ice) and, on ice, that is a big no-no.
The FO edge should be very tight and (as mentioned) it will naturally go to the toe pick. While this is happening the free side is comming around in a coordinated motion and will "pull" you around as you jump off the toe. This motion should take place at the last possible moment before a 3 turn would naturaly occur. (But do not allow a 3 turn).

I've never heard of deliberately salchowing a flying camel on ice (staying on the toe for long enough for a 3 turn to take place). I know that this is a "mistake" on ice and you can loose points for it. (Salchow takeoff on flying camel or deathdrop). Interestingly, one MUST salchow flying spins on inline/roller since there is no pick to "catch" the takeoff and the skater will slip to the side (ouch!)

[Doubletoe]

You should feel like you are taking off forward off the toepick. It helps a lot to make a very tight half circle with your takeoff edge and keep your free leg pulled way back, actually crossed behind the takeoff leg. That way, when you take off and bring the free leg around, it ends up directly to the side of you for the landing, not in front of you.

[Aussie Willy]

Revolutions on the ice before the take off are a big no no. It subsequently affects the flying position. Which with judging can mean a possible -2 GOE even before doing the spin.

[vesperholly]

my coach has told me that i should do a full revolution on my toe of the foot i jump from, then jump onto my back foot.

Hell no. Your takeoff should feel a bit like a sideways axel. Absolutely no turning backwards or 3-turning or flying salchows allowed.

[FigureSpins]

The proper takeoff for a Flying Camel is from a forward outside edge/toe takeoff. Frank Carroll cues the takeoff and spin as "draw the river" (entry edge) and "jump over it" to perform the spin on the opposite side of the entry edge. You must keep the free leg checked behind you then up and over to change sides in an arc. Think of standing sideways next to a very small pommel horse, and hurdling over it sideways, backspin foot first. Your backspin arm comes across with the backspin leg, and your takeoff arm checks in front briefly, then opens to help initiate the spin itself.

Most likely, your coach is going to teach you a camel-jump-camel before the flying camel itself. Starting a beginner with a spin-jump-spin approach is a pretty common technique. I know several coaches who teach it this way. I do as well, but I really am teaching the spin-jump-spin, I don't suggest it's a Flying Camel, to avoid this very situation.

Your coach may be using this drill as teaching tool, similar to teaching a toe-waltz to a rank beginner, then introducing the correct backward toe takeoff once the basic motions of the jump are learned.

If the spin-jump-spin entrance becomes a habit (usually called a "salchow flying camel"), the fix is to have the skater perform a pivot then lift the free foot to jump and toe in properly on the other side.

Don't assume that there's a problem or you're being taught incorrectly based on others' opinions. Coaches have their own methodology of teaching, so talk to your coach to be sure you understand his/her intent.

[leafygreens]

When you get into the back camel keep the right shoulder pushing over your left side. That always helps me. Assuming you are spinning CCW.

[vesperholly]

Most likely, your coach is going to teach you a camel-jump-camel before the flying camel itself. Starting a beginner with a spin-jump-spin approach is a pretty common technique. I know several coaches who teach it this way. I do as well, but I really am teaching the spin-jump-spin, I don't suggest it's a Flying Camel, to avoid this very situation.

I don't know anyone who teaches a flying camel that way! I didn't learn it that way and it sounds hella hard. How would you get the same kind of deep take-off edge that a regular flying camel entrance would have? But, different strokes ...