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  1. #21
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    I am trying not to rush judgement but I have reservations about the new SD. Will we ever see a truly "original" program like D/W's Bollywood OD last year under this new system? And I admit to being bummed about not getting to see the 50s-60s-70s theme for OD that had been planned for this year. It would have been a wonderful change of pace but now we get to sit through the Golden Waltz AGAIN. Couldn't they have chosen a different one?

  2. #22
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    In the early events, the short dance mostly look like two unrelated dances stuck together , especially the teams that chose waltz-tango. Skaters (or rather, their choreographers) seemed to have trouble integrating the Golden Waltz pattern and other elements into one dance that worked as a whole. Some of that may be the choice of Golden Waltz for the pattern. Does the Golden Waltz say straight line, no touch footwork to you?

    I think we will have a better idea after the senior Grand Pix events start and we have seen what the best ice dancers can do with it.

    I loved watching the top couples do CDs and will miss those.

    OK

  3. #23
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    I think I'm one of the few people happy to see the Compulsory Dances be removed from competition. I was prepared to hate the Short Dance, though, because on paper it sounded like a big mishmash. But I've really enjoyed all the ones I've seen so far and am looking forward to seeing more.

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  4. #24

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    The other problem I have with it is having the comparisons of which couple can best interpret the theme. I suppose you could say the same about last year's OD which had a lot of variety in the interpretation of the theme. I would have preferred if they had just stuck with a waltz theme and then you at least get a chance to see which couple could interpret the waltz better, even with the GW portion of it.

    I hope that makes sense.

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  5. #25
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    The teams, the choreographers, they all seem to be struggling with it and it doesn't work so well so far. The waltz-tango mix so many teams have chosen is one of the most horrible things I've seen in dance for a while. I had nothing against CDs, I know they were essential in ice dancing, but it's the death of ODs that I'm grieving the most. Look how many ODs were real pearls - take D/W's Bollywood last season. I don't expect the SD to rise so high. The CD pattern doesn't seem to fit, no matter how hard you try to make it do. I know it's all about money, but I would rather keep the OD as it was and get rid of the CD than lose both to some strange mix that doesn't do justice to any of them.

    That's my judgement so far, of course it's just beginnings of the SD, so perhaps we'll all change our minds when everybody, including skaters, gets used to it. But for now I say no to short dances.

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    Last edited by mia joy; 10-22-2010 at 06:14 PM.

  6. #26
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    I still don't et the SD. I just saw some videos of NHK and I still think it wasn't a very smart idea join the CD with the OD.

    The tango/waltz mix that some team are using is just !!! I aslo notice something when I was watching the dances...all of the programs look so empty and the skaters seem so lost the whole time.

  7. #27

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    The CD's have always been one of my favourite parts of the competition and I'm really going to miss them, even the Yankee Polka. The SD's we saw at Thornhill were neither fish nor fowl: they weren't CD's or OD's and the mix wasn't great, especially the dances which combined tango and waltz and tried to sell it us as a "Spanish Waltz". If we're going to get stuck with this hodgepodge, the ISU needs enact a rule that says that the rhythm of the SD must be consistent throughout. In using portions of the Golden Waltz, they should be required to use a waltz beat throughout.

    IMO, if they were going to scrap the CD, I would have liked to see a return to the Original Set Pattern Dance. The SD is not much different than the FD and I would prefer to see something a little more "ballroom" to compare pure dance skills. The OSP would do that in a way that honours the dance traditions of the sport, while the FD would give the skaters more artistic freedom.

    I'm OK with being quoted.

  8. #28
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    Not a fan thus far. It really jarring, especially when you get a mishmash of dance styles. But on the other hand, if the entire SD was based on the CD pattern (eg pure waltz for GW/ VW), we get less variety. I honestly don't believe it's possible or sensible to integrate a GW pattern into say a Bollywood or Cancan themed programme. As it is, the odd tango/quickstep-waltz hybrids are

    I'd much rather the ISU revive the old CD OD format, or ditch either one and retain the other. For most of the teams, the SD lacks coherency.

    OK

  9. #29
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    Now that I've seen some Short Dances, all I can say is ugh. No creativity, I didn't really look at the pattern in the first half, and the music cuts are atrocious.

    If they were looking for a way to cut one of the dance segments, I'd have just cut the CD. Or, quite frankly, I'd rather keep the CD and axe the FD

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  10. #30

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    I'm probably the only one on the planet that wanted to see ice dance in two segments: CD and FD. I never really saw the point of the original dance.

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  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    I'm probably the only one on the planet that wanted to see ice dance in two segments: CD and FD. I never really saw the point of the original dance.

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    You're not the only one. That's what I would've preferred as well.

  12. #32

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    The Short Dance doesn't seem to work well in practice as putting a Golden Waltz step in a middle of an originally choreographed work seems misplaced and abrupt.

    I think the Original Step Pattern or the Original Dance in it's first incarnation made sense as it tried to combine the strict adherence to the rhythm set in the CD and the freedom of the FD. However, the Original Dance lost its purpose in the past few seasons where the ISU basically allowed the Original Dance to become a mini-FD with a huge variety of interpretations that the judges can't really compare the way they should have been able to with the OD.

    I think I may have to agree with skateboy and Cloudy_Gumdrops in that if a decision had to be made, I would have preferred that they cut the OD and kept the CD and FD. I've been watching some old CDs and OSPs from the 80s and 90s and the command and skill that the best teams at the time had were just remarkable and I think Ice Dance needs to put a lot more emphasis on strict dance holds, steps, edges, and appropriateness of interpretation for one phase of the competition and allow creative freedom for another.

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  13. #33

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  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by semogal View Post
    I am trying not to rush judgement but I have reservations about the new SD. Will we ever see a truly "original" program like D/W's Bollywood OD last year under this new system? And I admit to being bummed about not getting to see the 50s-60s-70s theme for OD that had been planned for this year. It would have been a wonderful change of pace but now we get to sit through the Golden Waltz AGAIN. Couldn't they have chosen a different one?
    The first competition of the season is just finishing so we've seen, what 10 programs, and you're saying we haven't seen any wonderful programs and what will become of us.

    That DEFINES rushing to judgement.

  15. #35
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    ^I think it's more of a question than a statement of fact. I agree with the idea. I must ask, what drove the ISU to pick the Golden Waltz? Seriously. I was getting really tired of it.
    And I was SO excited to get to sit down for afternoons of Beatles and Elvis programs. And maybe a Saturday Night Fever program or two? And then to find some really unique ones (I was SO hoping some awesome team would do a Hair FD). Basically, we've just got a bunch of waltzes (and those waltz/tango things? makes no sense to me).
    I just think that some of the fun was the ability to craft two unique programs (like in singles and pairs). Now that they've spliced the program with a waltz, it's a little less of a change to do something out of the ordinary (sure, you can do it, but try to smoothly integrate it with your waltz).*

    *Ok, there's some uniqueness. But it's much more difficult. I applaud the Kerrs.

  16. #36

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    Now that we've seen some SDs: For me mixing the rhythms doesnt really work - it makes for the feel of 2 separate programs just shoved together. Keeping 1 rhythm works better. I liked D/W program of 2 different waltzes, keeping the waltz feel throughout.

    Next year, I'd like to see them limit the SD to 1 rhythm and again specify it doesnt have to be in the ballroom style. I was hoping we'd see some more dramatic waltzes, but the season is just beginning, so maybe we will.

    OK

  17. #37

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    Here is a radical idea.

    How about picking a CD but they do it to whatever theme they pick for the SD? You can do the steps of any dance to any type of music, as long as you skate to the music. My coach and I have done it heaps when doing dances.

    I know it is a lower level dance but the Willow Waltz goes really well to the Macarena.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Here is a radical idea.

    How about picking a CD but they do it to whatever theme they pick for the SD? You can do any steps of any dance to any type of music, as long as you skate to the music. My coach and I have done it heaps when doing dances.
    I really like this idea - you can pick any CD you want, and then build a program around it. It would certainly give the audience variety. I dont know how you'd mark it though.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    How about picking a CD but they do it to whatever theme they pick for the SD? You can do the steps of any dance to any type of music, as long as you skate to the music. My coach and I have done it heaps when doing dances.
    That would make it impossible for most of today's ice dancers to perform...

  20. #40

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    After watching NHK SDs, with the jarring/stitched together music cuts, I suggest a name change to....FrankenDance.

    Stitched together from the corpses of old CDs. It's alive!

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