That said, I'm torn - I like the idea of giving more skaters opportunities for medals, but it seems like skaters need a lot of time to "build up" to, and peak at, each event. It's not clear to me that they will have anything left in the tank after competing in their own event. It might just end up being a splatfest. :/
"Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode
Gymnastics routines are a few seconds to at most 90 seconds or so, not 4 minutes. And, yes, it does get less interesting seeing them the second and third time over. I liked it better when the prelims were a different routine.In gymnastics they see the same routines over again and no-one seems to mind.
Think marketing. Now, only a small handful of skaters can be introduced or billed as Olympic gold medalists and it is an uber big deal. Anything that increases the supply makes the product worth less (ECON 101).I don't get the logic in this [proliferation of skating gold medalists would really devalue the significance of the individual medals].
Yes. It seem totally lame to me when a guy on the team who contributed one or two scores to the total is described as an Olympic champion.So presumably you're also embarrassed for all those gymnasts who got medals in their team event.
This is exactly how it works in Alpine skiing, for example. They don't just add the skiier's times from the downhill and slalom events and hand out another medal. The downhill event is entirely separate from the downhill portion of the combined event. In a team skating event, they could carry over individual scores from either the SP or the free, but would still need to add at least one more skate for the team event. This is an IOC requirement, not something the ISU can decide.The point is that if individual medals were given for individual events and a combined medal given the skaters would have to skate their sp and lp's all over again to get the medal given for the combined event.
Or, if the Games are close enough, they go home in between.Pairs and men don't train their gala progs while dance and ladies are happening - they go out and enjoy the Olys.
I've always wondered what it would look like if skating had its equivalent of an all-around champion, with each couple doing a pairs program, a dance, and singles programs. I wonder how compelling the skating would be - a lot of double jumps, probably.
I think the more relevant comparison for 4CC would be European Champion. The European title still means something because it has tradition and because the best European skaters still compete if they can. Since 4CC covers such a huge geographic area, it is always going to be geographically inconvenient for either the Asian or North American countries. In addition to the longer travel, it is scheduled closer to Worlds than Europeans, making it even harder for skaters to do both well. It isn't prestigious enough for most skaters from farther away to risk their readiness for Worlds, so its fields of competitors will always be diluted (which it turn does nothing to add to the prestige of the title).But that's because "Four Continent Champion" is a random title. "Olympic Gold Medalist" already has a lot of built-in prestige.
Last edited by Susan M; 10-19-2010 at 11:51 PM.
1. Each "discipline" (Men/Women) has its own team vs. individual events, and they happen simultaneously over the course of the Olympics. This proposed team event is cross-discipline.
2. The events are sequenced to build, and the team competition becomes the qualifier for the individual events. There is no overlap between individual and team events.
To apply this to figure skating, would the team event come first, with each skater performing, regardless of discipline, and then skate the individual events? As it is, there are only a couple of days in which there is no skating between Opening and Closing ceremonies, which would mean a very compressed schedule for the team event and/or more than one discipline's individual events on a given day and out of prime time.
I would love to see this, too. It would make a better story and generate more interest. I'd rather see this than a team competition.I also like the idea of medals for the short programs - a bit like gymnastics individual apparatus medals. Some gymnasts are just better at one piece of apparatus than they are on the others. Well some skaters are "short program" skaters, and some always skate a better long, so let them get a medal for their specialty like the gymnasts do.
"The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy
So in swimming and track relays each person only contributed a quarter of the work required to reach the finish. And usually some contribute more than others - are their medals lame too? And you're not really embarrassed are you? These are world class elite athletes were talking about. Olympians. Olympic Gold Medalists. And your embarrassed for them because they contributed a smaller amount in the team effort than others?
See, you have kind of just proved my point. It is just wrong that skaters like Chan and D&D, who delivered disappointing, error-filled performances would be handed gold medals just because they come from a country with other strong skaters, while skaters like Asada, Plushenko, Davis/White, and Pang/Tong, who outskated and outperformed them, don't get to be gold medalists.Canada would have won in 2010 and Chan, Rochette and D&D would have OGM's.
That's why team events are about depth rather than individual strength.
"The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy
I can imagine it coming first as a kind of "warm up" before the individual competitions. I really have trouble being convinced re any stamina issue since skaters did their LP in quali rounds at worlds, and skated 2 LP's/FD's at the GPF for years.
I think it would be much better placed at the very beginning of the Olympics, on the first day of FS competition rather than at the end because I imagine it would be a less stressful competition than the individual ones, and I think skaters would more likely be (if not physically) mentally exhausted after the individual comps.
But kwanfan1818 really said it best - team comp is about depth rather than individual strength.
If they have to have a Team Competition (not that I really want it or anything), they should have them skate again, and not carry over their scores. Figure Skating has enough problems with perceptions of judging bias. All the top Canadian skaters, to varying degrees, were accused of being overscored in these last Games. Imagine what the reaction would be if those scores were used to determine team medals. Oh, wait. Was that supposed to be a bad thing?
Besides, is there a sport where athletes win multiple medals for the exact same race/performance? It's not like they just add the four best times in the 100m to determine the winner of a relay race. If the answer to my question is "Yes, in gymnastics!" then maybe we should just reduce the number of medals that stupid sport gets to give its athletes.
I don't really understand the need to give multiple medals, just because gymnastics does. Not all sports are set up for it. A tennis player has one trophy/medal to aim at - they don't lose the Olympic final and then have a chance to win a 'serving' gold, or a 'backhand' gold, or a 'longest rally' gold. A heptathlete doesn't get a small medal for finishing first in one of their events - there's just the overall result. An ice hockey event doesn't have more than one set of medals available. Gymnastics is different - they don't perform on all the apparatus simultaneously, whereas skaters perform all their elements etc within one programme. It's different, and one isn't necessarily better than the other.
Besides, if the WTT in 2009 had happened to be in an Olympic year and was used as the team event, then Caroline Zhang, Rachael Flatt and Denney/Barrett would be Olympic gold medallists.
Vaughn Chipeur, Cynthia Phaneuf and Dube/Davison would be Olympic silver medallists.
Takahashi/Tran and the Reeds would be Olympic bronze medallists.
And that's not including the (slightly more realistic) skaters who would also be medallists.
To be honest, if this was an additional event at the Olympics and they also took the idea of giving small medals for the SP/LP etc, there'd probably be more people winning medals than not...
Meh. Bad idea.
(Not to mention the fact that losing the CD was largely down to the need to cut events...)
I wonder what their reasoning was to do it in the first place.
The WTT was put together so quickly, it wasn't like they had the best of the best there. Some skaters were really good and others were not.
Here is the interview with Chiquanta to "Rossiyskaya gazeta". He again said that ISU does what they can to promote team competetions and they hope FS will get the fifth gold medal in Sochi:
Before dicussing the possibility of a team competition at the Olympics, shouldn't the ISU include this in its own world championships?
I think I have to agree. Seems strange that a team sport would be part of the OG and not part of WC. Is that why the ISU started that Team Trophy competition after WC a few years ago as a test run?
I am assuming that the above comments refer to having the WTT during the same week/same place as the rest of the WC - to be just like the proposal for including a team championship at the OG.
Big difference - OG is 2 full weeks of competition (plus a day?) - WC is less than 1 full week. Definitely less time for recovery for the top skaters and less time to fit it into the schedule so personally I think it is a better idea to keep the 2 events separate if they choose to go ahead with it.
(Also cynically it gives top skaters a chance to come up with a reason why they can't compete at the WTT - harder to do if they are already there competing in the individual events.)
Phil Hersh provides some more details on the proposed Olympic team event, from a telephone interview with Cinquanta. http://bit.ly/d4WkRv
Some details differ from those in the article posted by alilou.
- Ten countries would enter, each with one skater/team per disclipline.
- Both SP and FS would be required, with five teams eliminated after the SP.
- Each team can make two substitutes between the SP and the FS, from the list of official Olympic substitutes. (Sub travel expenses and housing at the home federations' expense.)
- The team part of the competition would be the first figure skating event and would last three days [second day maybe being a rest day??].
As has been discussed previously, I have a very hard time imagining that many top contenders will go all-out in a team competition that's mere days before their individual Olympic events.
One other bit of news: The individual-event schedule may be altered to provide an extra rest day between SP and FS, by using the type of overlapping schedule we see at Worlds, rather than the discipline-by-discipline order employed in the Olympics.