View Poll Results: Who will make GPF?

Voters
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  • Davis/White

    152 94.41%
  • Pechalat/Bourzat

    146 90.68%
  • Bobrova/Soloviev

    54 33.54%
  • Faiella/Scali

    136 84.47%
  • Cappellini/LaNotte

    79 49.07%
  • Kerr/Kerr

    112 69.57%
  • Hoffman/Zavozin

    5 3.11%
  • Crone/Poirier

    65 40.37%
  • Shibutani/Shibutani

    13 8.07%
  • Riazanova/Tkachenko

    3 1.86%
  • Ilinykh/Katsalapov

    66 40.99%
  • Gorshkova/Butikov

    7 4.35%
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Thread: GPF Dance

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    No, its more a prediction that they will be. Word is already around that they will be getting the big push from RSFS which usually also translates into support from their satellites.
    Word from whom? Because TAT herself wasn't terribly complimentary about their programs this season.

    I think they have amazing talent, potential, technical ability, and charisma, particularly her. If you don't think they have an It factor, then frankly, I'm not sure who you think does.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    No, its more a prediction that they will be. Word is already around that they will be getting the big push from RSFS which usually also translates into support from their satellites.
    Each powerful federation pushes their ice dance teams as much as they can. Don't worry, Russians are as paranoid about the political push behind the spectacular rise of US and Canadian teams as you are about the Russian teams. It all depends on your point of view.

    As for I/K, they haven't skated in a single senior competition yet and they have had just one year of international junior competition together. So it is way too early to predict anything about their chances for Sochi. However, they are overall the best junior ice dance team I have ever seen, when you take into account both technique and interpretation. This is my opinion of course.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Each powerful federation pushes their ice dance teams as much as they can. Don't worry, Russians are as paranoid about the political push behind the spectacular rise of US and Canadian teams as you are about the Russian teams. It all depends on your point of view.

    As for I/K, they haven't skated in a single senior competition yet and they have had just one year of international junior competition together. So it is way too early to predict anything about their chances for Sochi. However, they are overall the best junior ice dance team I have ever seen, when you take into account both technique and interpretation. This is my opinion of course.
    +100
    I guess they would have been even more overhyped have they skated for Canada or the US.
    Plus, saying that they are inferior to, or "years behind"!! of V/M and esp D/W at the respective age is a bit strange.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    ... I gotta change my mind. The draw is kind to Crone/ Poirier, more advantageous than to Russian teams ( especially considering withdrawals).
    Exactly.

    They'll do no worse than third at Skate America (I think second), and they'll do no worse than second at Skate Canada, and I have a feeling that they could win over the Kerrs there.

  5. #25

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    Just to be clear about where D&W and V&M were in their debut senior season (2006/2007):

    V&M
    Program tango
    FD Valse Triste
    Skate Canada-2nd
    TEB-4th
    4CC's 3rd
    Worlds 6th

    D&W
    OD Tango
    FD Polovetsian Dances
    Skate Canada-4th, however this was a big comeback after a fall in the Golden Waltz CD
    NHK 4th, including being first team to score all level 4's in both OD & FD
    Did not qualify for the GPF
    4CC's 4th (including finishing 3rd ahead of V&M in the CD)
    Worlds 7th
    Last edited by DORISPULASKI; 10-14-2010 at 07:44 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Just to be clear about where D&W and V&M were in their debut senior season (2006/2007):

    V&M
    Worlds 7th
    Tessa & Scott were 6th at Worlds 2007.


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I've heard they are being pushed as the great Russian hope for dance gold in Soshi, but looking at I/K now vs how Virtue-Moir or Davis-White looked in 2007, they are still years behind.
    We can't compare them to V/M and D/W circa 2007 yet because they haven't even started their first senior year yet. I would compare them to V/M and D/W circa 2006 and I think they are already superior to both of the North American teams in every aspect of their skating (technically and artistically wise).

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I have looked and looked, and still can't see IT here. IMO this team is hugely overhyped. They still skate very juniorish to me. I've heard they are being pushed as the great Russian hope for dance gold in Soshi, but looking at I/K now vs how Virtue-Moir or Davis-White looked in 2007, they are still years behind. IMO the RSFS should be looking at them for 2018. Still being Russian, they can expect a lot of behind the scenes help, I guess.
    Opinions always differ.
    But in terms of "hype", so far I don't think it's coming from Russian Federation, but rather from many ice dance fans who think that I/K are immensely talented ( me included). If they continue to progress fast, of course the Federation will be behind them. If they falter, the Federation will back up Bobrova/ Soloviev (officials are hardly sentimental). Every country stands behind their team #1, and I/K have great pressure of expectation on them right now and no guarantees.
    I think presently I/K are building a fanbase which has nothing to do with their nationality.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fashionista View Post
    We can't compare them to V/M and D/W circa 2007 yet because they haven't even started their first senior year yet. I would compare them to V/M and D/W circa 2006 and I think they are already superior to both of the North American teams in every aspect of their skating (technically and artistically wise).
    IMO, you're being overly optimistic. They are in no way technically superior to any number of North American ice-dance teams, including V&M, D&W or C&P. They are slow, don't skate all that closely together, but are a very, very talented JUNIOR team. Having seen their new programs, I'm expecting a sophmore slump.

    I worry that because of all of the hype, there will be so much pressure on these two that they'll never live up to expectations. This is a junior team that's been together for one season. To expect them to be competitive with teams like D&W or V&M, or even Crone & Poirier, who have been skating together all of their lives, is unrealistic. And that doesn't even take into consideration things like speed, power and ice-coverage, which is always an advantage to the older, more experienced teams.

  10. #30

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    I know you love them, Dragonlady, but Elena is so much better than Crone, IMO, who has bad posture, ugly feet and moves rather ungracefully. Paul is amazing, though.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I know you love them, Dragonlady, but Elena is so much better than Crone, IMO, who has bad posture, ugly feet and moves rather ungracefully. Paul is amazing, though.
    But tell us how you really feel.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    IMO, you're being overly optimistic. They are in no way technically superior to any number of North American ice-dance teams, including V&M, D&W or C&P. They are slow, don't skate all that closely together, but are a very, very talented JUNIOR team. Having seen their new programs, I'm expecting a sophmore slump.
    I think Fashionista means juniors V/M and D/W (in 2006), not nowdays.
    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I know you love them, Dragonlady, but Elena is so much better than Crone, IMO, who has bad posture, ugly feet and moves rather ungracefully. Paul is amazing, though.
    Oh, I hate Crone's posture, it's too bad for a dancer and seems to me they didn't even try to fix it

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn_girl View Post
    Oh, I hate Crone's posture, it's too bad for a dancer and seems to me they didn't even try to fix it
    I think it's a problem for that coaching team, since Asher Hill is also a wonderful dancer but his partner Karis Ralph also has very bad posture.

  14. #34

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    I thought that Vanessa showed tremendous improvement in her posture last year. It was very noticeable. I also know that she worked very hard to improve it.

    Suggestions that they didn't even try to correct her posture are completely incorrect.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I think it's a problem for that coaching team, since Asher Hill is also a wonderful dancer but his partner Karis Ralph also has very bad posture.
    And it's sad Maybe I'm the only one, but for me good posture and clean lines are the most important in ice dancing

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn_girl View Post
    And it's sad Maybe I'm the only one, but for me good posture and clean lines are the most important in ice dancing
    You're not. I agree that they're very, very important.

  17. #37
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    IMO, you're being overly optimistic. They are in no way technically superior to any number of North American ice-dance teams, including V&M, D&W or C&P.
    As it already pointed out I compared I/K with junior V/M and D/W circa 2006. And, yes, I think I/K 2010 are superior to V/M and D/W 2006.

    They are slow

    Are you sure you're talking about I/K?


    This is a junior team that's been together for one season. To expect them to be competitive with teams like D&W or V&M, or even Crone & Poirier, who have been skating together all of their lives, is unrealistic.
    Yep, in 2006 people told the same about V/M and D/W.
    I'm not trying to say that in 4 years I/K win Sochi Olys but I'm just about your statement that I/K are not competitive with any North American team. Yes, this year they are not but who knows what happens in a couple of seasons later?

  18. #38

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    This will be I/K's third season together. Not second. Though the idea of a "junior team moving to seniors experiencing a sophomore slump" was funny.

  19. #39

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    The point I was making is that if I&K don't make the GPF, they would still be right on the same track as V&M and D&W-4th places in their first GP's. A possible 3rd or second if some more highly ranked team messes up a segment of the competition.

    No tragedy. They would still be well on their way to Sochi.

    Both teams had their senior debut at Skate Canada 2006

    Marie-France Dubreuil & Patrice Lauzon 38.83 (1) 59.04 (1) 98.81 (1) 1 (196.68)
    Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir 29.51 (3) 54.12 (2) 88.29 (3) 2 (171.92)
    Federica Faiella & Massimo Scali 33.19 (2) 49.15 (5) 88.39 (2) 3 (170.73)
    Meryl Davis & Charlie White 25.53 (8) 52.30 (3) 84.83 (4) 4 (162.66)
    Anastasia Platonova & Andrei Maximishin 27.87 (4) 49.60 (4) 79.98 (5) 5 (157.45)
    It looks like F&S had some kind of a problem in the OD. F&S should have finished second, but they faltered. Ice is slippery. And D&W fell in the CD (Golden Waltz).

    V&M's second GP was TEB, where F&S beat them handily.

    Albena Denkova & Maxim Staviyski 38.32 (1) 61.15 (1) 97.78 (1) 1 (197.25)
    Isabelle Delobel & Olivier Schoenfelder 37.65 (2) 59.25 (2) 97.72 (2) 2 (194.62)
    Federica Faiella & Massimo Scali 33.63 (3) 54.76 (3) 88.23 (3) 3 (176.62)
    Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir 31.29 (5) 45.08 (8) 83.75 (4) 4 (160.12)
    Anna Cappellini & Luca LaNotte 31.18 (6) 49.58 (4) 79.01 (5) 5 (159.77)
    Nora Hoffmann & Attila Elek 30.54 (7) 47.93 (6) 76.89 (7) 6 (155.36)
    Nathalie Pechalat & Fabian Bourzat 31.53 (4) 49.23 (5) 72.54 (8) 7 (153.30)
    It appears V&M had a problem in the OD here. The CD was the Westminster Waltz.

    D&W's second outing at NHK-no problems, just a harder field. The CD was the Rhumba.

    Marie-France Dubreuil & Patrice Lauzon 38.28 (1) 60.23 (1) 97.38 (1) 1 (195.89)
    Jana Khokhlova & Sergei Novitski 33.66 (2) 55.15 (2) 91.76 (2) 2 (180.57)
    Melissa Gregory & Denis Petukhov 33.62 (3) 54.56 (3) 89.63 (3) 3 (177.81)
    Meryl Davis & Charlie White 29.98 (4) 52.86 (4) 86.65 (4) 4 (159.49)
    Nozomi Watanabe & Akiyuki Kido 28.99 (5) 46.90 (6) 74.38 (6) 5 (150.27)
    Neither made the GPF.

  20. #40

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    Dorispulaski, thank you for bringing up the statistics.
    From my very quick estimation, the only way for I/K to make GPF is to beat Capellini/ Lanotte in Japan- and it is highly unlikely in their first Senior outing ( or to defeat both Kerrs and Bobrova/ Soloviev in Russia). Their GP fields are pretty strong in both events. No reason to set unrealistic expectations- their season will be a success if they are top 6 in Europe, top 8 at Worlds ( and even that's hard to do).

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