# Thread: rockers and counters and 3 turns oh my

1. ## rockers and counters and 3 turns oh my

Hi Everyone,

I'm a bit confused re: turns, and thought I could turn here for help. I'm getting all of my 1 foot turns confused, and thought maybe you guys could help me to fill in the list.

3 turn: 1 foot turn going from backward inside to forward outside (or vice versa) or backward outside to forward inside (or vice versa) - follows the same lobe.

counter:

rocker:

bracket:

thanks all! Did i miss anything?

2. I think of it this way:

A 3-turn & bracket are the same except you turn either into or away from the entrance circle.

Same for rockers & counters.

3-turns/brackets keep the same circle. Rockers/counters change lobes as you exit the turn.

Rockers turn the same direction as a 3-turn. Counters turn the same direction as a bracket.

It can be very confusing, and I often do backwards rockers when I'm supposed to be doing counters. For some reason the backward entrance goofs me up.

3. Another way to think about is in terms of changes in edge/direction/foot.

All of the turns above stay on the same foot (unlike choctaws and mohawks, where there is a change of foot). 3-turns are a change of direction and edge - ex: FO to BI (and the turn makes the shape of a "3"). Brackets also are a change of direction and edge but no change of foot, except as backspin pointed out, brackets turn away from the circle.....essentially the opposite of a 3-turn. The tracing looks like a bracket, with the turn mark pointing away from the circle.

Rockers are a change of direction, no change of foot or edge - ex: FO to BO. They are similar to 3-turns in that you turn toward the circle and as backspin said, change lobes after the turn - so you're making an "S" shape on the ice. Counters are similar to rockers - change of direction, no change of foot or edge - but they turn against the circle, "counter" to your body's natural rotation. So in that way, they are similar to brackets.

If you want to get really technical , the USFSA website has diagrams of the moves in the field patterns for those turns - go to Technical Info - Rulebook - Tests Book (but you do have to know which turns are on which test, or just scroll through).

4. This is the way I think of them:
Rockers have 3-turn entrances with bracket-like exits.
Counters have bracket entrances with 3-turn-like exits.

5. Originally Posted by steve skater
This is the way I think of them:
Rockers have 3-turn entrances with bracket-like exits.
Counters have bracket entrances with 3-turn-like exits.
Yes this explains it best and is what I say when I am trying to work out which turn I am doing.

6. Originally Posted by steve skater
This is the way I think of them:
Rockers have 3-turn entrances with bracket-like exits.
Counters have bracket entrances with 3-turn-like exits.
This is very useful. It also helps to remember the following:

- 3-turn and rocker have the same entry position
- bracket and counter have the same entry position
- 3-turn and bracket go from one edge to the other edge (eg. inside to outside)
- rocker and counter go from one edge to the same edge (eg. inside to inside)

- Bracket and counter are counter-rotational turns--your hips turn away from the natural direction/flow of the entry lobe/edge. It feels more awkward; you're turning your body in the opposite direction you're gliding. For 3-turn and rocker, your hips turn in the same direction as the entry lobe/edge. It feels more natural; you're turning your body in the same direction you're gliding.

7. 3-turns : same foot, change of edge, change of direction (from forward to backward or inverse)

rocker : same foot, same edge, change of direction, turn is the same as a 3-turn.

counter : same foot, same edge, change of direction, turn is opposite from a 3-turn.

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