View Poll Results: Tech Content of 1987: Witt Vs Kostner, who wins?

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Katarina Witt

    28 84.85%
  • Carolina Kostner

    5 15.15%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,785
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516

    Tech Content of 1987: Witt Vs Kostner, who wins?

    Katarina Witt- 1987 Worlds- Free Skate

    Carolina Kostner- 2010 NHK Trophy- Free Skate [Link Omitted]

  2. #2
    Mad for mangelwurzels
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    جوجه تیغی خجالتی می داند زیبایی از گلبرگ
    Posts
    10,587
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    121473
    It's rather an unbalanced question. NHK is a much smaller competition than Worlds, so it's no great surprise that it doesn't require the same technical content to win it. Everyone knows that Kostner wouldn't win Worlds 2011 with that performance. In addition, she's capable of doing the flip and lutz, but can't attempt them at the moment because of injury.
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,785
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516
    ^ Witt had to perform compulsory figures at 1987 Worlds, so she could not focus exclusively on technical content, but she was capable of at least 3F.

    I supposed I could create a poll comparing NHK to NHK since fall of 1990, when compulsories were discontinued from competition, in general, although compulsories had not been part of NHK prior to that. Of course, then Kostner would be matched up with Midori and Tonya
    Last edited by bardtoob; 10-24-2010 at 08:09 PM.

  4. #4
    Mad for mangelwurzels
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    جوجه تیغی خجالتی می داند زیبایی از گلبرگ
    Posts
    10,587
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    121473
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    ^ Witt had to perform compulsory figures at 1987 Worlds, so she could not focus exclusively on technical content, but she was capable of at least 3F.
    Slight drift, but isn't it the case that Katarina landed the 3F only once at Worlds? (I'm not sure; I wasn't watching in those days.) And she certainly didn't ever land the lutz, or even try it.
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,785
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516
    Yeah, Witt introduced 3F to World competition then never did it again at Worlds, but Carolina never did compulsory figures either. I think Witt was practicing 3Lz to match Beillmann, but abandoned it because it was not necessary.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 10-24-2010 at 08:45 PM.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    7,138
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    It's no secret that this wasn't the best ladies competition ever skated. NHK was the first event of the season and Worlds is the last. I don't think it's really useful to compare these two competitions. Carolina is probably trying to ease back into the jumps, after all she is injured. She definitely wouldn't win worlds with that skate.

    On another note, Rachael Flatt had the most technical content here, yes, more than Witt in '87.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    832
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    545
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Yeah, Witt introduced 3F to World competition then never did it again at Worlds, but Carolina never did compulsory figures either. I think Witt was practicing 3Lz to match Beillmann, but abandoned it because it was not necessary.
    I think the jump she pulled out of her pocket at Worlds was the 3Loop in 1987.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjvAu2TnxMo

    I am not sure I ever saw her do a 3F..most of her competitions were 3T and 3S only, IIRC.
    She did know how to sell those 2 jumps though...no doubt about it.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    9,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The only time I saw Witt attempted a 3flip on TV was at 83 Europeans, and it was two-footed. That competition was aired on CBS, and it was the first and last time Janet Lynn was hired as a TV commentator, btw; Janet was horrible.

    If Witt had been able to do 4 different triples back in those days then she would've been unstoppable.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,785
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516
    Quote Originally Posted by Sedge View Post
    I think the jump she pulled out of her pocket at Worlds was the 3Loop in 1987.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjvAu2TnxMo

    I am not sure I ever saw her do a 3F..most of her competitions were 3T and 3S only, IIRC.
    She did know how to sell those 2 jumps though...no doubt about it.
    Here is pre-Zayak Rule Katarina Witt, complete with 2Lz-3T, 3F, 3T, and Split Flip-3T: WITT K. 1981 LP

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,016
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I am really getting sick of these threads. It's almost as if they're created to put Carolina in a bad light.

    All those ladies were not skating to their potential, some of them injured including Carolina. All of them are capable of doing so much more. It's the beginning of the season so give them a break.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,785
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516
    Quote Originally Posted by jiggs View Post
    I am really getting sick of these threads. It's almost as if they're created to put Carolina in a bad light.
    Then don't go into the Trash Can. There is a reason this is in the Trash Can.

    "The Trash Can
    Abandon hope all ye who enter here! Um, trolls, polls and crap."

    Of course, being in the Trash Can does not change that Carolina wuzzgifted with a gold medal and prize money, accordingly, for performing technical content of the 80s, oldies but goodies
    Last edited by bardtoob; 10-24-2010 at 10:15 PM.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    832
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    545
    Thanks barbtoob..I had no idea she had ever done a 3F..looks like it went missing in action after that season..she was back to 2F at Worlds by 1983 and 84.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    7,138
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Then don't go into the Trash Can. There is a reason this is in the Trash Can.

    "The Trash Can
    Abandon hope all ye who enter here! Um, trolls, polls and crap."

    Of course, being in the Trash Can does not change that Carolina wuzzgifted with a gold medal and prize money, accordingly, for performing technical content of the 80s, oldies but goodies
    How on earth was she gifted? Sure, Rachael Flatt out jumped her...but this is not 6.0 any longer. Carolina was clearly stronger in all other areas. To me, it wasn't even close.

    I don't really understand a compelling reason for this thread..why are we comparing Carolina at NHK to Katarina in a WC 23 years ago? Carolina is injured and could not perform to the best of her ability. She gave it her all...and in a field of weak performances she managed to win. I'm certain we'll be seeing her attempt greater difficulty as the season continues.
    Last edited by Jenna; 10-25-2010 at 12:05 AM.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,785
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516
    ^ I did not see anything significantly better except in one component, and not enough to win a competition.

    ^ Looking for a "compelling reason" in the Trash Can ... By all means, please keep looking ... Trouble yourself over it ... I'm sure it will do you wonders.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 10-25-2010 at 12:31 AM.

  15. #15
    YEAH!
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Worshipping Grebenkina...
    Posts
    13,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11008
    That performance of Witt is one of my all time favorites... it's a compliment Carolina is being compared to that.

    I'm definitely one who doesn't like it when technical content is going backwards, but it's just a GP. When it happens at Worlds or Olympics where everyone is supposed to be in top shape, then I'd say it demonstrates the sport going backward or changing priorities; when it happens at a GP, I'd say it demonstrates the weak field of that particular GP.

    Was she supposed to withdraw because she couldn't do the lutz and flip? That's kind of what Plushenko did for Worlds (he was too injured to do the quad, and elected not to compete without it). I don't blame her for skating anyway. It's her first GP and an oppourtunity to get her programs out, test her levels, etc. I would hope this is not her jump layout that she plans to do all season. If she (or anyone) is able to win Euros, GPF, or Worlds with that content then I'd say we have a problem.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,130
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Witt's 87 Worlds LP was far superior to what Kostner just did at NHK. At least Witt landed all of her 2A attempts.

    I'm sure once Kostner tries to put the lutz and the flip back into the program she'll be a mess again. Of course it was too much to ask her to go clean skating such a junior program.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,130
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    That performance of Witt is one of my all time favorites... it's a compliment Carolina is being compared to that.

    I'm definitely one who doesn't like it when technical content is going backwards, but it's just a GP. When it happens at Worlds or Olympics where everyone is supposed to be in top shape, then I'd say it demonstrates the sport going backward or changing priorities; when it happens at a GP, I'd say it demonstrates the weak field of that particular GP.

    Was she supposed to withdraw because she couldn't do the lutz and flip? That's kind of what Plushenko did for Worlds (he was too injured to do the quad, and elected not to compete without it). I don't blame her for skating anyway. It's her first GP and an oppourtunity to get her programs out, test her levels, etc. I would hope this is not her jump layout that she plans to do all season. If she (or anyone) is able to win Euros, GPF, or Worlds with that content then I'd say we have a problem.

    Did you not see worlds last year when the ladies bronze medalist missed her 2A in the SP and then in the LP 5 of her 7 jumping passes were double jumps? In ladies figure skating the euro judges are sending messages to do easier programs and those are the ones getting rewarded. 7 of the 9 judges at NHK were from Europe. I think worlds was the same.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Age
    38
    Posts
    17,615
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Then don't go into the Trash Can. There is a reason this is in the Trash Can.

    "The Trash Can
    Abandon hope all ye who enter here! Um, trolls, polls and crap."

    Of course, being in the Trash Can does not change that Carolina wuzzgifted with a gold medal and prize money, accordingly, for performing technical content of the 80s, oldies but goodies
    You sound more upset about the money than the medal.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    In an ideal world
    Posts
    2,954
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Katarina Witt- 1987 Worlds- Free Skate
    Carolina Kostner- 2010 NHK Trophy- Free Skate
    You are comparing a World winning performance v.s. only 2nd in NHK Trophy in October?? What's the point??

    ETA: plus, 1987 was a year before Olys, and 2010 GPS is right after Olys.
    Last edited by midori; 10-25-2010 at 04:46 AM.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,346
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    8369
    Witt wins but THIS CRUSHES BOTH OF THEM, bitchezzzz!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •