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  1. #41
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    Where does Meissner fit into this? Does she have plans to return?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliasJohnDoe View Post
    Where does Meissner fit into this? Does she have plans to return?
    Kimmie's done for good, I'm pretty sure.

    The way I see it

    Nagasu is tier 1 and Flatt is tier 1 for now until someone better comes along

    Gao, Zawadzki, and Siraj have potential to become tier 1 in the near future, but for now are tier 2

    Wagner, Zhang, Czisny are all tier 2, but I really don't think any of them are going to be the next leading US lady

    Dobbs, Baga, Gilles, Musademba, Maxwell (if she competes again) are all tier 3, but have the potential to become tier 2 in the near future, but likely won't ever be tier 1

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Totally disagree with this..How did Kristi have ugly jumps?

    Did she flutz? What did I miss all those yrs ago?
    I meant ugly as in low height. And she did flutz actually--kind of like a Mirai flutz.

  4. #44
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    I think Ashley Wagner is more talented, but Rachael Flatt does better because of her consistency.

  5. #45
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    Over in the endorsements thread, I posted a list of the current U.S. ladies and the number of senior ISU medals thay have earned. I thought it would be interesting to include the junior medals as well. ( As before, National and B-level events were excluded. )
    I was amazed to find that 21 current U.S. ladies have ISU medals, junior or senior.

    Skater ..................... medals

    Caroline Zhang ………...…. 11
    Ashley Wagner ………...…. 8
    Rachael Flatt …….....……. 7
    Alissa Czisny …......………. 6
    Angela Maxwell ……...……. 5
    Mirai Nagasu ……......……. 5
    Alexe Gilles ……….........…. 4
    Christina Gao ……......……. 4
    Danielle Kahle ……….....…. 4
    Kristiene Musademba ....… 4
    Becky Bereswill ……....……. 3
    Kiri Baga …............………. 3
    Amanda Dobbs ……....……. 2
    Chrissy Hughes ………....…. 2
    Melissa Bulanhagui ……..…. 2
    Yasmin Siraj …........………. 2
    Agnes Zawadski ……..……. 1
    Blake Rosenthal ……...……. 1
    Ellie Kawamura …....………. 1
    Kristiene Gong ….....………. 1
    Megan Hyatt ……….......…. 1

    The U.S. ladies are in incredibly deep field.

  6. #46

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    Maxwell, C. Hughes, Rosenthal and Hyatt are no longer skating.

  7. #47
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    Just curious -- why are Senior B and Junior international medals other than JGPs excluded? Czisny's medal count, for example, would be 11 if they were all included.

  8. #48

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    Because Zhang would lose her commanding lead?
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Because Zhang would lose her commanding lead?


    Really, PB. What are you trying to prove by posting these U.S. ladies medal counts in numerous threads? Just because Caroline has the most ISU medals (according to your standards) doesn't mean she is the top skater in the U.S. Yes, she won bronze at 4CC last season, but you do realize that the top U.S. ladies passed on that event, right?

  10. #50

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    I could make a case for Czisny being the top US lady just by excluding Junior events and including B comps:

    Czisny - 7
    Zhang - 5
    Wagner - 3
    Flatt - 2
    Bulanhagui - 1
    Nagasu - 0
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post


    Really, PB. What are you trying to prove by posting these U.S. ladies medal counts in numerous threads? Just because Caroline has the most ISU medals (according to your standards) doesn't mean she is the top skater in the U.S. Yes, she won bronze at 4CC last season, but you do realize that the top U.S. ladies passed on that event, right?
    This point has been made countless times, but it doesn't appear to be sinking in.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post


    Really, PB. What are you trying to prove by posting these U.S. ladies medal counts in numerous threads? Just because Caroline has the most ISU medals (according to your standards) doesn't mean she is the top skater in the U.S. Yes, she won bronze at 4CC last season, but you do realize that the top U.S. ladies passed on that event, right?
    OK, let's relax here. My point is that we have a very deep ladies' field. Let's try reading the actual post before snarking please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Just curious -- why are Senior B and Junior international medals other than JGPs excluded? Czisny's medal count, for example, would be 11 if they were all included.
    That is a perfectly valid point. I'm not sure where to find all the data. Does Wikipedia list all the events?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post


    Really, PB. What are you trying to prove by posting these U.S. ladies medal counts in numerous threads? Just because Caroline has the most ISU medals (according to your standards) doesn't mean she is the top skater in the U.S. Yes, she won bronze at 4CC last season, but you do realize that the top U.S. ladies passed on that event, right?
    People need to get over this. Her bronze at 4CC was really not that impressive. Akiko Suzuki the silver medalist beat her by about 15 points and Caroline's score was not much higher than those put up by Amanda Dobbs, Haruka Imai, Min-Jung Kwak, and Amelie Lacoste....yeah. Caroline's in the same league as those skaters at this point, and I don't think anyone expects any of them to dominate the international scene anytime soon....

  14. #54
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    Alissa Czisny is very very good, except her jumping technique.
    She has good edges, beautiful body positions, amazing spins.

  15. #55

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    Post #53 made me look at Zhang's medals from a different angle: How she scored and whom she beat.

    CoC 07: Silver, 156.34
    Beat: sub-par Suguri, Sebestyιn, Liang, Fang, Pφykiφ, Czisny, Xu, Martinova, Wang

    SA 07: Bronze, 153.35
    Beat: Hughes, Leung, Gedevanishvili, Ievleva, Mai Asada, Karademir, Marchei, Xu

    TEB 08: Bronze, 156.54
    Beat: C. Didier, Liang, Xu, Gedevanishvili, Gimazetdinova, Hughes, G Didier

    4CC 10: Bronze, 160.78
    Beat: Dobbs, Imai, Kwak, Lacoste, Samson, Gilles, Szmiett, Gimazetdinova, Liu, C-H Kim, Lee, N-Y Kim, Marais, Cantu, Kiang, Wang, Ko

    Although she has posted three good scores as a senior lady (GPF 07, 4CC 09, WTT 09) her average score in international competition is 158.68.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Alissa Czisny is very very good, except her jumping technique.
    She has good edges, beautiful body positions, amazing spins.
    She's also slow and looks down a lot, which brings down her 2nd mark. But her spins and lines are gorgeous, I agree. She's not the future of US skating though, I think she'll be retiring within the next year or so. Yasmin Siraj seems really impressive so far, if she stays so tiny, I wonder if she would ever pick up pairs.

  17. #57
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    @PolymerBob -- that's interesting re medals, thanks for posting. Historically, the U.S. ladies field has always been extremely deep, which made it difficult for our tier 2 and 3 ladies to have the opportunity to develop internationally on the senior level. Once the golden reign of Michelle Kwan ended, however, no one has really stepped up strongly to compete with the top ladies in the world, i.e., Yu Na from Korea, Mao, and the rest of the Japanese juggernaut. Sasha obviously had the talent, skills, reputation, i.e., "the guns, but no ammunition." Mirai seems to be the one to step up to the plate and hit a longlasting home run. I also like Ashley Wagner, but she has some hurdles to overcome. I admire RFlatt, but I don't enjoy her skating. I love Caroline Zhang, but no one paid enough attention to her technical problems earlier on when it might have made a huge difference for her.

    Kimmie was so overhyped in the beginning, especially regarding landing that shaky 3axel at Nats, but she's sweet and very talented. She overachieved when she won Worlds, but that year the rest of the field just seemed to be shy of grasping the opportunity to take the title ... not so for Kimmie. Unfortunately, Kimmie hasn't been able to progress further to the true star level. Alissa has the face, the spins, the gorgeous moves, the mentoring, the hold your breath possibilities ... and unfortunately, the apparently inevitable misfiring on her jumps.

    Emily Hughes: the family name, the hard work, one of the most aesthetically beautiful and proficient laybacks, fierce desire and competitiveness, but essentially a tier 2 overachiever. BeBe Liang, so much talent... I hoped and hoped and thought maybe this time, this time, but it wasn't to be for lovely BeBe. She did make a lasting impression, and I hope she gained much joy in her skating journey. Most skaters don't make it to tier 1 and beyond, so in the end, gaining joy in the process is what matters.

    Stephanie Rosenthal: a great example of giving it your all, coming up with something fresh and new, going beyond the limits of your talent (for jumping), reaching your goal and taking that success with you to another arena.

    I'm interested to see how Mirai will come out of the blocks this season. Hopefully, sprinting toward high marks, consistency and success.

  18. #58
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    It's fun and interesting to predict, speculate, and debate about who is "the best, or (fill in the bank)"

    IMHO, with a few very very rare exceptions, these young athletes mostly do not have a stable, predictable pathway in FS.
    It's just the nature of the sport, unfortunately.
    At some point, they seem to reach a peak in emotional stability/competitive drive, skills, and physical attributes appropriate to FS under CoP....
    ...but nobody can say when that peak will happen, or if we can recognize a peak as its occurring, or how good a FS will continue being after reaching it.
    Their performance is in a constant state of flux...


    Reminds me of what is routinely stated on every brochure and ad for investments (mutual funds, etc.)
    "Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results"



    .

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    BeBe Liang, so much talent... I hoped and hoped and thought maybe this time, this time, but it wasn't to be for lovely BeBe. She did make a lasting impression, and I hope she gained much joy in her skating journey. Most skaters don't make it to tier 1 and beyond, so in the end, gaining joy in the process is what matters.
    I kind of group Alissa and Bebe into the same category - lots of talent, but never really made it on the international scene due to chronic inconsistent performances.

    Emily is similar to Rachael Flatt in that I feel in a sense they are both tier 2 overachievers, and it's too bad because they delivered so many times but it's just like the international judges would never quite give them the marks to be up there with the very top ladies no matter how well they skated.

    For some reason I feel like Agnes may become the next Alexe Gilles....strong jumper, won the national junior title, had lots of success on the junior stage, and then became inconsistent on the senior stage (presumably due to being quite tall). I hope she can make a splash this season though!

    Caroline is a question mark in my mind, she has an awful lot of things she needs to work on and I'm just afraid even when/if she fixes them, some other girls will just be better than her and she won't really stand a chance.

    Christina has a lot of potential to be the next big thing but could also end up like Ashley Wagner and just never be considered one of the top skaters in the mind of the international judges and therefore struggle to win medals at major ISU championships on the senior level.

  20. #60
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    I think Siraj has more potential to be the next great thing than Gao.

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