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  1. #1
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    Anyone Testing Adult Pre-Bronze MIF Soon?

    I have some questions about two of the moves, that will probably only be answered by test experiences. I realize that what the judges want could easily vary by locale.

    First - the three turn pattern. The text for this pattern calls for a BXO, while the diagram specifies a B X front. I want to know if both are acceptable.

    Second - the F & B XO pattern. The text calls for a F swing roll, change of edge and FI mohawk when transitioning from the FXO's to the BXO's. The diagram supports this. I watched the USFS videos of this move for both the Preliminary and the Adult Pre-Bronze. The Prelim skater did what is called a "swing mohawk," which is quite different from a swing roll, COE, mohawk. The adult skater did no swing at all, but did the mohawk with a forward movement of the free foot first, then back to the instep for the execution of the turn.

    I sent an email re both of these to the address given on the video page. I'll post if I get an answer.

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    The swing mohawk is new & has only gone into effect 2 days ago!! The video you saw may not be correct therefore. Do you have the new PSA moves video? The demo video on the new moves section of the USFS website isn't really how it was shown at the seminars, where the skater did do a true swing roll/mohawk.

    Also, to my knowledge, they have not updated the adult moves videos yet to reflect the changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbny View Post
    First - the three turn pattern. The text for this pattern calls for a BXO, while the diagram specifies a B X front. I want to know if both are acceptable.
    I've seen it done both ways. Each skater passed....although they were at 2 different test sessions, with 2 different judging panels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by backspin View Post
    The swing mohawk is new & has only gone into effect 2 days ago!! The video you saw may not be correct therefore. Do you have the new PSA moves video? The demo video on the new moves section of the USFS website isn't really how it was shown at the seminars, where the skater did do a true swing roll/mohawk.

    Also, to my knowledge, they have not updated the adult moves videos yet to reflect the changes.
    Sorry, I forgot to say that my questions were spurred by the arrival of this year's rulebook with the changes and that the videos are of the new/changed moves. You can see them here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbny View Post
    the videos are of the new/changed moves. You can see them here.
    I know--but some of them changed after those were posted--and some of them aren't quite correct. Based on what I saw / what was talked about in the seminar w/ Brandon Forsyth, the Prelim. XO circles must have a swing roll/ mohawk as the F to B transition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by backspin View Post
    I know--but some of them changed after those were posted--and some of them aren't quite correct. Based on what I saw / what was talked about in the seminar w/ Brandon Forsyth, the Prelim. XO circles must have a swing roll/ mohawk as the F to B transition.
    I believe these are up to date. Have you looked at them? I think the use of the term "swing roll" is just freestyle skaters mis-using dance terminology. If you look at the Paso, in the text, it's a "swing mohawk," although the diagram shows "SwR." I think that's only because there is no abbreviation for "swing mohawk."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbny View Post
    I believe these are up to date. Have you looked at them? I think the use of the term "swing roll" is just freestyle skaters mis-using dance terminology. If you look at the Paso, in the text, it's a "swing mohawk," although the diagram shows "SwR." I think that's only because there is no abbreviation for "swing mohawk."
    They're not all up to date. For example, the first element on the novice test is incorrect--they changed it somewhere along the way but didn't update the video. I trust what I saw in the seminar this summer, and again, what I saw demonstrated and what they talked about, was a swing roll/mohawk, sort of a slow motion version of the Paso step you mention. As in: stroke, leg extends back & then swings forward ('swing roll), drop to inside edge as the foot swings back down & step down on the mohawk.

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    Remember that the videos at USFS are NOT intended to necessarily show passing moves (and there is text there, somewhere, to that effect).

    I did the 3-turn pattern with a plain-Jane BXO (which would, in fact, mean that the third step would cross in front--eg, you'd do RBI, LBO, (XF)RBI, LFI for the second lobe of a pattern).
    Last edited by LilJen; 09-09-2010 at 01:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    I did the 3-turn pattern with a plain-Jane BXO (which would, in fact, mean that the second step would cross in front--eg, you'd do RBI, LBO, (XF)RBI, LFI for the second lobe of a pattern).
    Every crossover and cross front crosses in front of the skating foot, but a crossover and a cross front are two very different things. In a cross front, there is no under push whatsoever, and the crossing foot is placed in front and across the skating foot, never pulled across at all. What I find especially interesting about the demo of that move, is that when pushing to the BI edge, the skater picks up the other foot as if preparing for a cross front, but then puts it down and does a crossover. I've mostly seen this skated with a two foot transition as in B power crossovers or F power 3's.
    Last edited by dbny; 09-09-2010 at 02:45 AM.

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    Yup, because that BI edge is supposed to be a stroke of its own (and sorry, in my original post I should have said the THIRD step crosses in front, not the second). Once I got to the Bronze power 3s I could see how that sequence was preparatory for the power 3s. In any event, I doubt the judges will be very picky about the steps at the pre-bronze level. I don't think the underpush is going to be a huge concern at this level.

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    Hi, as to the swing mohawk thing, today the instructor taught us the new F-B XO pattern. It's the same pattern for both the Pre bronze and Preliminary tests, right?

    She had us do RFO swing roll, then counterclockwise (stepping from right to left) inside mohawk. The outside edge automatically changed to inside as my foot swung back to do the mohawk.

    Just wanted to input that I had been taught a swing roll-mohawk rather than swing mohawk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
    Hi, as to the swing mohawk thing, today the instructor taught us the new F-B XO pattern. It's the same pattern for both the Pre bronze and Preliminary tests, right?

    She had us do RFO swing roll, then counterclockwise (stepping from right to left) inside mohawk. The outside edge automatically changed to inside as my foot swung back to do the mohawk.

    Just wanted to input that I had been taught a swing roll-mohawk rather than swing mohawk.
    Thanks for posting; this is interesting. I think there is going to be a lot of confusion on this one. I almost feel like I should teach it both ways so my students can do the other one if asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbny View Post
    Thanks for posting; this is interesting. I think there is going to be a lot of confusion on this one. I almost feel like I should teach it both ways so my students can do the other one if asked.
    Sorry, but if the book says swing roll/mohawk, the seminarss are teaching swing roll / mohawk, and your only other reference is a video from a set that is known to contain errors (the pre-juv fwd/bk crossover pattern is also shown incorrectly), then why are you still doubting it??

    My psa new moves video is out on loan, so I can't double check it there, but I'd highly recommend ordering one for yourself. Don't trust the videos on the usfsa site!!

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    I don't have the new PSA video, but the old one has errors too. I am not necessarily doubting; rather, I know that what really counts when testing is what the judges want, and it's well known that that varies, sometimes considerably, and often by locale. I also think that if a skater is strong otherwise, she/he is not going to fail because of that one step. So, I'm not so much interested in what the book says vs what the video shows. That is just a source of uncertainty. This is why I titled the thread "Testing.....Soon" and not "What Does the Book Say."

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    I received an answer from USFS on the Prelim & Adult PB F & B crossover pattern:


    "The video demonstration of the Forward and Backward crossovers does show a swing before the mohawk. It is not very pronounced, but the attempt is there. It should, however, occur before the change of edge."

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    I just watched the video (adult pre-brozne F/B XO). The skater did have the swing motion and hence caused the change of edge. So what's the confusion? Granted, it's not obvious like the paragraph figure change of edge on the axis. But the test demo video shows the swing mohawk quite clearly to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    I just watched the video (adult pre-brozne F/B XO). The skater did have the swing motion and hence caused the change of edge. So what's the confusion? Granted, it's not obvious like the paragraph figure change of edge on the axis. But the test demo video shows the swing mohawk quite clearly to me.
    My observation of the APB move is that there is no swing, so I guess if you were testing and I were judging, I would ding you for that

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbny View Post
    I guess if you were testing and I were judging, I would ding you for that
    tsk tsk tsk... It's an encouragement test...

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    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    tsk tsk tsk... It's an encouragement test...
    Didn't say I would fail you, just a little ding in the comments

    BTW, it's not unheard of for someone to fail an encouragement test. I know of two cases, neither deserved, IMO, but ya can't criticize a judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbny View Post
    Didn't say I would fail you, just a little ding in the comments
    A ding? Shouldn't that be a plus? I thought USFS just replied back to you and confirmed that the swing should be there (before the change of edge). Did I miss something else?

    To me, that's the same concept as the COE in the paragraph figure. It's not a full swing, but the free foot is placed (or slight swing) to the front for the COE.

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