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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahjev View Post
    Just delurking to comment on this

    Ok Jayar, we get it. If the decision where in your hands, Plush will NEVER EVER put a skate on a competition rink again

    I must tell you Cinquanta has a different opinion:



    ISU ready to consider restoration the amateur status of Plushenko

    President of the International Skating Union (ISU) Ottavio Chinkvanta said that ISU is ready to consider the possibility of restoring amateur status for Evgeni Plushenko.

    "Sportsman had 21 days to appeal, but he did not do that. If now the National Federation guarantee for him, then we can take exceptional decision about restoration."



    source in Russian:
    http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s.../72819071.html



    As you can see, The ISU is playing the "nice guy" role here, speaking about an "exceptional decision" even when it's not necessary because, as senorita has stated, Plush can actually ask for restoration whenever he wants, he broke the "i" part of the rule, not "ii" or "iii". The ISU will decide if he get it back of course, and, according to Cinquanta, seems like he and his National Federation just need to ask for it.


    And yes, the retired skaters you sarcastically mentioned could try to comeback if it's their desire, are not permanently banned and meet the requirements, wich for age and health reasons, I'm not sure will be possible (not everyone can do a "Plushenko" and make a succesful comeback after retirement )

    And "Two silvers and one gold" are certainly "not a bad career", it's actually an awesome and exceptional one, he's in the company of a very few in the same conditions in FS history.

    Plush is not banned for life, get over it, he's "indefinitely" ineligible, which means he could have his status restored by one, two years...... or by tomorrow.

    As you said: "It's the ISU's opinion that matters at this point"
    Great post. This thread has been quite entertaining.

    IMO, IF Evgeni wants ... and is in top competitive form ... to compete in Sochi, the ISU will be more than "ready to consider restoration the amateur status" and will fall all over themselves to "take exceptional decision about restoration."

    The ISU aren't complete fools, are they? A FULLY COMPETITIVE Plushenko in Sochi would mean nothing but huge $$$$$$$$ in so many ways. Nope, they are not that foolish.

    Personally, I have serious doubts as to whether Plush can be competitive at the grand old age of 31 .. but, then, again, I (to my great shame) doubted that he'd be able to come back for Vancouver. Sorry, Plush.

    I don't think Plush has an inkling of interest in competing in the intervening seasons; but, IF he's ready and able to compete in Sochi, oh yeah, he'll be there.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    Weir just said he wasn't prepared for Worlds and didn't want to go (not very different from Plushenko, really). All 3 skaters requested and received permission to do the Kings shows. The only difference is that the ISU was pissed at Plushenko and pressured the Russians into withdrawing the permission. I guess they simply didn't care about Weir.
    1. Plush requested permission from his Federation(which was given but withdrawn later) for ONLY 2 shows (in Moscow and St.Petersburg). As for the shows in Europe (France, Sweeden, etc) he even did not bother to ask permission from his Federation. All this is described in the press release of the RUS Federation published after his disqualification.
    2. Basically 2 approvals are needed to participate in the shows:
    1. The show (as the events as a whole) must be approved by the Federation of the country on which territory it's held or by the ISU.
    2. The participation of specific skaters must be approved by their respective Federations.

    I was told that usually it's done in the following way:

    E.g. Kawaguchi/Smirnov requesed approval from the RUS Federation to participate in the show in Japan. The RUS Federation approved it, but before that they also requested info from the Japanese Federation if the show itself was approved by them.
    In such way the skaters are protected from possible sanctions.

    Plush went to the shows in Europe without asking approval from his Federation, which is already a violation (but which allows reinstatement) and not even informing them. And the RUS Federation in this case had no idea if the shows were approved by the Federations of the countries where the shows were held.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by angietang View Post
    To argue with a wall? Are you an idiot?
    No. And you can send me a PM if you wish to discuss this further.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Joubert went to World's. He won the bronze. Weir didn't compete, but I don't remember what the story there was.
    There are three conditions in the ISU rule under which Plushenko was deemed ineligible. The first one (i) is about individuals, i.e., whether a particular skater was not given permission by his/her Federation to skate in a member- or ISU-sanctioned event. This is the one for which the skater can apply for reinstatement.

    The second two (ii and iii) are about whether the events themselves are ISU- or member-sanctioned, and if a skater or official participates in an unsanctioned event, there are no avenues for reinstatement. This would include all participants in that event (ISU) or all member participants in the event (Federation), regardless of whether the skater had competed in 12 ISU-approved events before it.

    If the ISU didn't sanction KOI as an event, then Plushenko, Weir, and Joubert would have been in the same boat. The only way that Plushenko would have violated iii, but not Weir or Joubert would have been if the Russian Federation did not sanction KOI, but USFS and the French Federation did.

    That did not happen. The Russian Federation revoked permission for Plushenko to skate in a member-approved event. (And then, as SUN noted, didn't even get an application for other shows.) Hence violation of i, not iii.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayar View Post
    No. And you can send me a PM if you wish to discuss this further.
    You must be responsible for your insulting PM to me, man!

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Skatefan View Post
    Maybe Joubert and Weir got permission from their federations?
    No in the case of an unsactioned event, the problem is not the skaters but the event itself, that is what i meant

    Quote Originally Posted by SUN View Post
    1. Plush requested permission from his Federation(which was given but withdrawn later) for ONLY 2 shows (in Moscow and St.Petersburg). As for the shows in Europe (France, Sweeden, etc) he even did not bother to ask permission from his Federation.
    I guess since they called him in the middle of KOI practice in Moscow(it is in a fan's video) to tell him we dont give you permission afterall to skate there, I doubt after all that he would think to apply for approval for the future shows that were later in April, probably he knew about ISU decision before we did

    Sato in the gala?
    Last edited by senorita; 09-09-2010 at 10:12 AM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    An "open" competition means that both eligible and ineligible skaters may compete. This has nothing to do with Plushenko's ineligibility for the GP events and other ISU events. He's still out.
    Who said anything the opposite in OP? Learn to read. For a start. Then, post. DL:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahjev View Post
    I must tell you Cinquanta has a different opinion:



    ISU ready to consider restoration the amateur status of Plushenko

    President of the International Skating Union (ISU) Ottavio Chinkvanta said that ISU is ready to consider the possibility of restoring amateur status for Evgeni Plushenko.

    "Sportsman had 21 days to appeal, but he did not do that. If now the National Federation guarantee for him, then we can take exceptional decision about restoration."



    source in Russian:
    http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s.../72819071.html

    Plush is not banned for life, get over it, he's "indefinitely" ineligible, which means he could have his status restored by one, two years...... or by tomorrow.

    As you said: "It's the ISU's opinion that matters at this point"
    The ISU and Cinquanta obviously forgot to aks DL and other Plush haters. That mob knows better than ISU.

    Seriously speaking, I personally never doubted that the things will end up like that: if HE wants, the positive result of paper job from the Russian FS Federation and ISU will be granted. Basically, it is all up to him, no matter how much his "fans" puff and nuff pathetically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1214 View Post
    The ISU aren't complete fools, are they? A FULLY COMPETITIVE Plushenko in Sochi would mean nothing but huge $$$$$$$$ in so many ways.
    True.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1214 View Post
    The ISU aren't complete fools, are they? A FULLY COMPETITIVE Plushenko in Sochi would mean nothing but huge $$$$$$$$ in so many ways. Nope, they are not that foolish.
    ISU and Russia will pray that Plushenko stay healthy and skate in Sochi, imagine how interesting will be men´s event with Plushenko competing in his fourth Olympics. A lot of people will buy tickets only to see Plush skating, what audience will have the TV channels, the forums!

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    snip ... A lot of people will buy tickets only to see Plush skating, what audience will have the TV channels, the forums!
    Wading in ...
    A lot of people will tune in to see the Olympics, but it won't be to see Plushy skate. I may be in the minority, but I don't care to see him skate competitively again. I can just imagine the inflated scores he'll get and then some because of him skating "at home" and I'm sure it will surpass the marks that were "handed" to Chan when he skated at home. Should Plushy be competing in Sochi, I won't be watching him. I enjoyed him in his earlier years, but he now leaves me thinking "meh".

    The ISU will do what is best for them in regard to $$$ so I can see them finding a means to allow Plushenko to become eligible again - regardless of what made him ineligible. It's all about the money.

    Personally, I'd like to see Plushenko stay away from jumping on the ice, get healthy and enjoy his family with some other kind of work (like maybe coaching or something). Best wishes to him regardless.
    Crazy about sports!

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post

    The ISU will do what is best for them in regard to $$$ so I can see them finding a means to allow Plushenko to become eligible again - regardless of what made him ineligible. It's all about the money.
    ah well, it was about time
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    I can just imagine the inflated scores he'll get and then some because of him skating "at home" and I'm sure it will surpass the marks that were "handed" to Chan when he skated at home.
    See? You already have a reason to watch him, you'll find out if you were right and Plushy's marks were more inflated that Chan's!!!!

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by senorita View Post


    I guess since they called him in the middle of KOI practice in Moscow(it is in a fan's video) to tell him we dont give you permission afterall to skate there, I doubt after all that he would think to apply for approval for the future shows that were later in April, probably he knew about ISU decision before we did

    Sato in the gala?
    The same press release states that Plush was informed that the permission for his participation was revoked 4 days before the first show.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    If the ISU didn't sanction KOI as an event, then Plushenko, Weir, and Joubert would have been in the same boat. The only way that Plushenko would have violated iii, but not Weir or Joubert would have been if the Russian Federation did not sanction KOI, but USFS and the French Federation did.

    .
    For the event on the territory of France the approvals for the EVENT from USFSA or RUS Federation are NOT valid.
    Only French Federation or the ISU can sanction the event in France (either one of them, not both).

    USFSA or RUS Federation must approve the participation of their respective skaters.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUN View Post
    The same press release states that Plush was informed that the permission for his participation was revoked 4 days before the first show.
    yeah i didnt say a day, I said it was in the practices, they were practicing for KOI join number with Lambiel, wEIR and Joubert that day. There is an interview these days where he says he wouldnt withdraw from the tour at this moment and he talks about the fine and bad relations he got from AOI for withdrawing in prague in 2004. I guess it was his choice.

  15. #95
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    Personally, I liked things better when a skater would go to their first Olympics to gain some experience & exposure, return 4 years later, possibly win a medal, and then move on.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1214 View Post
    The ISU aren't complete fools, are they? A FULLY COMPETITIVE Plushenko in Sochi would mean nothing but huge $$$$$$$$ in so many ways. Nope, they are not that foolish.
    Does the ISU or any other governing body for a particular sport make any profit from the Olympics? I thought all the profits went to the IOC and the host city.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    A lot of people will tune in to see the Olympics, but it won't be to see Plushy skate.
    Wow, impressive - you should be on The Psychic Network Channel...
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Joubert went to World's. He won the bronze. Weir didn't compete, but I don't remember what the story there was.
    Oh yeah, Joubert was at Worlds. So only Weir had to get permission from his federation, the USFSA. Well, he must have done that.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUN View Post
    For the event on the territory of France the approvals for the EVENT from USFSA or RUS Federation are NOT valid.
    Only French Federation or the ISU can sanction the event in France (either one of them, not both).

    USFSA or RUS Federation must approve the participation of their respective skaters.
    That means there no scenario in which the event was not sanctioned (violation of iii, with no reinstatement), since all participants, Weir and Joubert included, would have been ineligible had that been so, not just Plushenko.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    He really just skated the same program over and over since 2004
    This is figure skating. No one is trying to be creative. Everyone is trying to please the stuffy old judges. Everyone skates the same program, and have done so since forever.

    A few extra arm flails and pained facial expressions don't change the fact that virtually all programs from skater to skater, year to year, and even gender to gender, are virtually one and the same.

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