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  1. #41
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    Maybe I have the wrong show in mind..However, I don't seek out a lot of show clips. So it may be just that I never saw the program before , since I mainly watch competitions, and the exhibitions that go with them. ( The program in question was the one with the Hawaiian shirt) My preconceptions come from years of watching him in international competition, since his first appearance at Skate America.

    If what you say is true, I find it all the more depressing that he hasn't seen fit to display that kind of lightness and freedom in competition.. what I've really disliked about Brian, I know, has had a lot to do with his material . I never felt that he was stretching beyond his jumps at all , but like Plushenko, continually falling back on non-skating gimmicks to fill out his programs.

  2. #42

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    I posted the following article excerpt (link is in the Champs Camp thread) in the French news thread the other day, but in case anyone missed it:
    Brian Orser said Brian Joubert's time at Toronto's Cricket Club this summer was brief but productive. "He came and got his programs done with David Wilson at another rink, and worked with us for two weeks. We did get a lot of work done; he loved the environment here. He's a nice, nice guy, and he worked hard. I was very impressed." Joubert, like Evgeni Plushenko, has been criticized for lacking transitions in his programs, and that was an area they targeted: "I think Brian has a better understanding of transitions; he knows they can actually be fun, if you understand them. He worked on his skating skills. Tracy [Wilson] holds stroking classes and he was involved with them."

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratfall View Post
    If what you say is true,
    In Korea´s show, he did 'Aerodynamics' ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiUPo4YzVBU) that it´s a program of 2006 (the first time that we could see was in Feb. of 2006 in show post olimpic in Bercy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QZUXwjddEc ) and 'Love Is All' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0So9i9FrfCw) of summer of 2007 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3pKSvv8AQ )

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by portia View Post
    I think it's obvious that the reply by Gil-Galad was intended to be funny.
    It certainly was meant to be a joke, it was my crude interpretation of the remark the poster before me made. My loyalties are pretty clear actually, I've always considered myself to be a conaisseur of unsophisticated skating with great jumps, that appeals greatly to the uneducated primitive masses.

  5. #45

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    If what you say is true, I find it all the more depressing that he hasn't seen fit to display that kind of lightness and freedom in competition.. what I've really disliked about Brian, I know, has had a lot to do with his material . I never felt that he was stretching beyond his jumps at all , but like Plushenko, continually falling back on non-skating gimmicks to fill out his programs.
    Terrific observation - spot on.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratfall View Post
    :

    what I've really disliked about Brian, I know, has had a lot to do with his material . I never felt that he was stretching beyond his jumps at all , but like Plushenko, continually falling back on non-skating gimmicks to fill out his programs.
    Maybe yes maybe not... independently of that he likes his style and he does not want to do big changes, also I believe that it influences the fact that the judges do not want to see in him any change....
    Do you remember its sp of 2007/2008? it was a very different program in its style, perhaps it was not a radical change, but he tried it.... and I believe that it is one of his programs worst valued by the judges, on the following year he changed to his habitual style and they turned the highest scores.
    Last edited by calica; 09-02-2010 at 08:20 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by portia View Post
    I think it's obvious that the reply by Gil-Galad was intended to be funny. At least that was what I got out of it.
    yeah, I know it was supposed to be funny, I was more like refering to the post Gil-Galad was refering to by quoting their post... if that makes any sense

    Quote Originally Posted by portia View Post
    BTW, didn't you also rag on Lambiel recently, calling him a "ballerina" as a dig on his balletic skating style? I didn't see anyone make a big stink about it then. Why do you make such a big deal about it when it's your favorite skater being made fun of?
    I only "rag" on Lambiel, or whatever it is that you call it, because I used to love him and I was kind of disappointed by seing what direction his style has gone. But well, I know I call different skaters different offensive names, people here do as well, you can call Joubert a robot or whatever you wish referring to his style, but that necessary evil just bugged me and I guess it still would if reffered to a different skater. I don't even know why, I guess it just kind of hurts to see anyone being called an evil, when you know how much the person must have worked to become that "evil". That's all.

    OMG this post is really out of control Sorry if it's hard to understand what I mean

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    he [Candellero] probably did one of the best conceptually and most entertaining programs with his D'Artagnan. That straightline step sequence was fabulous. Great program.
    ITA. Yags copied the sword fighting thing for his MITIM program, but wasn't as successful as Phillipe, IMO.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratfall View Post
    I never felt that he was stretching beyond his jumps at all , but like Plushenko, continually falling back on non-skating gimmicks to fill out his programs.
    i ve been reading this many times, but yet a judgement is not a fact. Firstly, I think they have their own style and I dont find it similar.What are the non skating gmmics? I guess one is the hip thrusting, but I have seen all competitive programs by Plush and Joub and it is not like they have done this in all their porgrams, Joub in Rise, PLush in Tango and his 2001 program, where else?
    And what other kind of gimmicks there are ? I am asking for educative reasons

  10. #50
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    The running in place on the ice.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by senorita View Post
    i ve been reading this many times, but yet a judgement is not a fact. Firstly, I think they have their own style and I dont find it similar.What are the non skating gmmics? I guess one is the hip thrusting, but I have seen all competitive programs by Plush and Joub and it is not like they have done this in all their porgrams, Joub in Rise, PLush in Tango and his 2001 program, where else?
    And what other kind of gimmicks there are ? I am asking for educative reasons
    The prominent jockstrap. At least the potato didn't roll to the back.

  12. #52
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    Brian Orser said that Brian Joubert stayed and trained with him for two weeks, I feel that he should have stayed and worked with Brian Orser full time, I really feel that he could have benefitted from it on a full time basis. He needs to give up this living and training at home thing in Poitiers, he needs to leave the nest, I feel that he could benefitt from it emotionally and physically.

  13. #53
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    senorita....Hi, it's me.. when I said Brian and Plushy both fall back on gimmicks, it doesn't necessarily mean that they use the same ones , or that I think they have the same style. Although they both have been guilty of pelvic gyrations of one kind or another.And you know, when it's used in every exhibiton ,but only every other competitive program..it still gets pretty annoying . For Plushy , there's almost always the throwing his heart to the audience,the number one finger, blowing kisses,( Brian, too on occasion) , posing for the judges ( there are other ways to catch one's breath)..and odd flashy hand gestures that have nothing to do with anything..certainly not the music.When he was very young, I thought he was emulating Urmanov, but he's since( sadly) made it this own. Both P. and B. have used the glove affectation ( which has spread everywhere like a rash)..Plushy's gold organza ones were the worst..(Plushy seemed determined to make it a trademark..why? Actually, I have a theory, but it would be OT right now..) Brian inherited many of his gimmicks second-hand through Morozov ( See running on the spot, etc) which Morozov brought with him in the split-off from TAT, and had been Yagudin signatures, but I think Brian got simplified versions...Mind you, Morozov has bestowed them on other skaters, too ( see Oda, Takahashi ) but these guys had other strengths that Brian didn't. Dai 's brilliance just exploded once away from Morozov..we'll see about Nobu this year.. I don't know when exactly Brian left Morozov as a choreographer ( I know TAT was in there somewhere too, briefly, and I know there were others..), but he retained many of the mannerisms, even when working with other people. And I believe even when he worked with Kurt , much of what they worked on never made it to the ice...Or was chipped away at over the season to better focus on the jumps..

    Anyway, I don't want to beat up on the guy, because I feel hopeful for him this year.( You did ask for an explanation ) And I know this stuff is my opinion , a judgement I came to reluctantly over the years . Reluctantly.. because there is phenomenal talent there , in both cases, and for probably different reasons, I feel we've never seen the utmost these guys are capable of. Plushy has taken a stance and is sticking to it. Once he won world's, that was it. There was an attitude of I'm the best, why should I do anything else , anything more ? I don't think we'll see artistic growth from him. Brian, OTOH, seems to think he should try..kudos to him.

    Calica.. I hadn't seen that program before.. even though it's just a show number and still contains many of the gimmicks I dislike..there's a feeling of freedom that he needs to nurture.It confirms that he's capable of other things.
    Last edited by Pratfall; 09-04-2010 at 08:46 AM.

  14. #54
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    thanx for answern P., that was enlighting what throw heart to the audience is??
    I so laughed with gold gloves theory, i remembered the christmas gold ball GPF costume, LOL

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madmarch View Post
    Brian Joubert is once again being coached by Véronique Guyon. They resumed training together last Monday in Poitiers.

    http://www.lanouvellerepublique.fr/S...nouveau-reunis
    I think the poor boy needs to break with the past rather than going back to his former coach.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratfall View Post
    senorita....Hi, it's me.. when I said Brian and Plushy both fall back on gimmicks, it doesn't necessarily mean that they use the same ones , or that I think they have the same style. Although they both have been guilty of pelvic gyrations of one kind or another.And you know, when it's used in every exhibiton ,but only every other competitive program..it still gets pretty annoying . For Plushy , there's almost always the throwing his heart to the audience,the number one finger, blowing kisses,( Brian, too on occasion) , posing for the judges ( there are other ways to catch one's breath)..and odd flashy hand gestures that have nothing to do with anything..certainly not the music.When he was very young, I thought he was emulating Urmanov, but he's since( sadly) made it this own. Both P. and B. have used the glove affectation ( which has spread everywhere like a rash)..Plushy's gold organza ones were the worst..(Plushy seemed determined to make it a trademark..why? Actually, I have a theory, but it would be OT right now..) Brian inherited many of his gimmicks second-hand through Morozov ( See running on the spot, etc) which Morozov brought with him in the split-off from TAT, and had been Yagudin signatures, but I think Brian got simplified versions...Mind you, Morozov has bestowed them on other skaters, too ( see Oda, Takahashi ) but these guys had other strengths that Brian didn't. Dai 's brilliance just exploded once away from Morozov..we'll see about Nobu this year..
    I think Brian suffers from not being naturally supple (so limited in his moves) and possibly not having the confidence to move in the way the music makes him want to. Hence, he falls back on trying what has succeeded for others before him, or what choroegraphers think he should try. Somehow, taking off his shirt, posturing and and flirting with the audience worked for Candeloro, but looks contrived when I have seen Brian do it, and I don't feel all the Stoiko moves suit him either. I just rewatched his Hallelujah exhibition from 2009 and at times he looked like he was really letting the music take him over. It was really lovely and showed that he can skate to slower emotional music and look good wothout the jumps, something I would love him to do more often.

    We saw Brian's strength of spirit last Worlds, we've seen his nervousness and, dare I say it, mardiness at times, but we too rarely see the guy who just loves being on the ice as much as he obviously does. I hope his move this summer works for him and we finally get the whole package that I'm sure he is capable of producing.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Sparrow View Post
    For feck's sake, retire already!
    Honestly. The constant coach hopping is getting beyond ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    I'm wondering how long he will keep the choreography.
    It's David Wilson. Not like there will be any actual choreography to shed.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morelli View Post
    I just rewatched his Hallelujah exhibition from 2009 and at times he looked like he was really letting the music take him over. It was really lovely and showed that he can skate to slower emotional music and look good wothout the jumps, something I would love him to do more often.
    seriously, why is everyone so much obsessed with the Hallelujah when it comes to giving an example of Joubert's performances to slower, lyrical music? I honestly never got that much excited about that program, for me it was rather boring. Try his Don't give up ex from Warsaw, or Tant qu'on reve encore or Assasymphonie instead. I mean, really, there are some good slow music programs from him. I was really surprised when after his Hallelujah everyone went and talked about the first time they saw lyrical or emotional Brian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morelli View Post
    we too rarely see the guy who just loves being on the ice as much as he obviously does.
    word. and thus sorry, but him retiring or not is none of our business. Just let the guy enjoy what he does. I know his coach decisions are strange and riddiculous at times, but it's not like we can just get rid of all the skaters we don't like by making them retire

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    I know 25 is becoming "an old guy" these days, but objectively it's not that old, so if he still feels like competing, why wouldn't he?
    This has nothing to do with Joubert. The peanut gallery says this about every skater. They said it about Sasha, about Michelle, about Plushenko...basically, whenever the top skaters stop performing the way the public would like, they say "oh just retire". They don't even think that suggesting someone retire before their 30s is stupid. They don't even think that perhaps that skater still LOVES what they do, and that it's not always about medals, especially for those who have already earned them. They don't think, and they don't care, they just sit and judge, and if it's not fun for them to watch anymore, they say "retire" without actually thinking that perhaps, just perhaps the person loves their sport and has no reason or need to quit.

    I mean, people are saying Plushenko should quit even though he's still young and managed to pull off a silver (though some think it should have been gold) at the Olympic games after three years off! Why? Just because people think he's boring to watch. So don't watch then. There are lots of skaters I find boring...so I just don't watch them.

    People forget that just because this sport happens to be televised, still doesn't mean that it's a sport primarily for the public. Shows are for the public, competitions are for the athlete themselves.

    I don't think Joubert should quit unless he is injured, bored with the sport, or has another valid reason to do so. Realistically many skaters could go on a good 10 years longer than when people start saying "retire", and many have.

    ETA: With all that said, Joubert needs to stop picking his coaches based on who will come to Poitiers to coach him. There really are no great coaches in France, so he should move and get one elsewhere if he does want to improve his results.
    Last edited by tangerine_dream; 09-19-2010 at 02:29 AM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
    This has nothing to do with Joubert. The peanut gallery says this about every skater. They said it about Sasha, about Michelle, about Plushenko...basically, whenever the top skaters stop performing the way the public would like, they say "oh just retire".
    No, the public usually call for a skater to retire when it becomes obvious that the skater is no longer at the top of his/her game and isn't likely to get back to the top again, ie Fumie Surguri.

    They don't even think that suggesting someone retire before their 30s is stupid.
    Uh, you do realize that an athlete whose career is dependent on his/her physical abilities is entirely different than that of a person working 9-to-5, right ? It's not necessarily "stupid" to want a skater in his/her 30 to move on from the eligible rank when the so said skater is slipping in the ranking year after year.

    They don't even think that perhaps that skater still LOVES what they do, and that it's not always about medals, especially for those who have already earned them. They don't think, and they don't care, they just sit and judge, and if it's not fun for them to watch anymore, they say "retire" without actually thinking that perhaps, just perhaps the person loves their sport and has no reason or need to quit.
    I don't care that Fumie continue to compete, for example, but that doesn't mean that I still can't think that she's chasing some dream that has pass her by about 7 years ago. You can love a sport as much as you want, but at some point you'll have to admit that it's time to move on and concentrate your energy on something else for the rest of your life.

    I mean, people are saying Plushenko should quit even though he's still young and managed to pull off a silver (though some think it should have been gold) at the Olympic games after three years off!
    Not everyone is saying Plushy should quit, since he can still be competitive with the top men if he wants to be.

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