View Poll Results: Who Is the Queen of Skating Moms?

Voters
178. You may not vote on this poll
  • Momma Henie

    1 0.56%
  • Momma Heiss

    0 0%
  • Momma Fleming

    5 2.81%
  • Momma Chin

    33 18.54%
  • Momma Lipinski

    15 8.43%
  • Momma Harding

    2 1.12%
  • Momma Bobek

    5 2.81%
  • La Mère Joubert

    22 12.36%
  • Momma Leung

    16 8.99%
  • Momma Zhang

    7 3.93%
  • Momma Kim

    56 31.46%
  • Other (please identify)

    16 8.99%
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 103
  1. #61

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,786
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516
    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    . . . where as neither the Kwan nor Hughes parents asked the same type of sacrifice of their other kids.
    Along this same vein, the Weirs, I believe, made an agreement with Johnny that he would pay back money originally saved for his brother to fund his skating, which, by happenstance, was well timed since Johnny's brother is 4 years younger.

  2. #62

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    California,
    Posts
    1,309
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1239
    Quote Originally Posted by inthemiddle View Post
    What about Michelle Cho mom?
    There was also a Father and Grand Parents involved here. It was not a pretty scenario. The good news is that she did survive.
    Morry Stillwell

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,017
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990
    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    And if the Hughes family are not rich? I have never heard anyone say that the Kwans were wealthy. Also, IIRC, the boot endorsement issue arose around the time Karen was entering college ... and Ron was already attending college. Does this mean if Danny Kwan made the decision regarding the boot endorsement to get the money he needed to send Ron and Karen to college, it is OK, and he gets off the "skating-parents-from-hell" list?

    Let's not forget that the decisions (to send other siblings to college, or, to sacrifice their dreams in the interests of another child) was made long before that other child was a skating star, and, when the skating issue was a gamble. The fact that Mama Kim's gamble paid off, and, the older daughter could cash in if she wanted to, doesn't alter the fact that the older daughter's dream was sacrificed on a gamble, whereas neither the Kwan nor Hughes parents asked the same type of sacrifice of their other kids.
    How was the other daughter's dream sacrificed when she's still more than young enough to have a singing career if she so desires? I mean this in the nicest way possible but for skating careers, these things have to be pursued when you are young. But the other daughter is now 22, that was plenty of time for her parents to help her out/make it up to her even if Yu-na's skating dream didn't go through. There was always a way longer window for her to pursue her dream than for Yu-na to pursue hers.

    And if I understand correctly in the story about Yu-na, Yu-na was discovered by a coach who was simply begging her parents to pay the money to help her skate, send her overseas etc. He was even telling her parents that he would help them with the funds if necessary. He firmly believed she had the talent to be an Olympic champion at the young age. Don Laws said something similar.

    While Aera may have a beautiful voice, given that the mom didn't know how good it was, there's quite a big chance that no teachers were going up to the parents saying a big thing. So its not like the two gambles were equal.

    And once again we don't know if Aera's parents sat down and had the same talk with Yu-na and Aera that Johnny's parents had with him. We will pay for your skating Yu-na but when you are older, you'll find a way to make it up to her sister. In fact there was talk that Yu-na came very close to quitting because of finanical income

    I'm not saying life was wonderful or fair for Aera. Life never is but to judge a family for the decisions made when aren't there isn't fair either.

  4. #64

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,390
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4361
    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    How was the other daughter's dream sacrificed when she's still more than young enough to have a singing career if she so desires? I mean this in the nicest way possible but for skating careers, these things have to be pursued when you are young. But the other daughter is now 22, that was plenty of time for her parents to help her out/make it up to her even if Yu-na's skating dream didn't go through. There was always a way longer window for her to pursue her dream than for Yu-na to pursue hers.
    ...
    I'm not saying life was wonderful or fair for Aera. Life never is but to judge a family for the decisions made when aren't there isn't fair either.
    First, while not as extreme as with boys, the voices of girls often change with age, so it is possible that the time window is lost. Second, with much money spent on Yu-Na's career, it would be doubtful if Aera's dream could be pursued if Yu-Na did not reach skating stardom. Third, the fact that the Kwans, the Weirs and the Hughes all managed to support their skating-star-child while securing the futures of their other children shows that great wealth is not necessary.

    Most importantly, however, is that, if judging Mama Kim for "the decisions made when aren't there isn't fair" [sic], why is it fair to judge Papa Kwan for a decision (or decisions) made for reasons also undisclosed? As I mentioned before, the two older Kwan children would be in college when the issue of the boot endorsement arose. It is completely unknown if the boot issue had any bearing on the Nagano results, since Tara was so fanatically dedicated to winning that she practiced until her hip was injured .... and beating fanatics is extremely difficult.

    We also don't know what involvement he had with Michelle's decision to (a) drop Frank or (b) go coachless as opposed to getting another coach. It is very possible, for example, that Danny did not have any direct part in the decision. His part (if any) could have been indirect (i.e., tension began brewing between Frank and Danny; despite attempts by both to hide it, Michelle could feel the pressure, but couldn't handle it). He also could be completely innocent.

    It seems to me that the rules should be the same for both the Kims and the Kwans -- if it is unfair to judge the one, it is unfair to judge the other. This is especially true with the "skating mom" [or "skating dad"] sobriquet. As it is, there is one problem, centered on a coach, where both parents (at least allegedly) made a bad decision. However, both parents should also be given credit for the good that they did ... including the decisions made by the Kwan, Hughes and Weir families to protect their non-skating children.
    Last edited by attyfan; 08-30-2010 at 09:30 PM.

  5. #65
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    451
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Frank did say this about Papa Kwan in the NY Times regarding 1998:
    At those Games, Kwan was sequestered by her famously nervous father, Danny, and her agent, Shep Goldberg. Carroll said he barely saw her. “Her father told her, ‘Be slow, take your time, stay on your feet and you’ll win,’ ” Carroll said. “She stayed on her feet and she didn’t win.” Winning the Olympics requires aggressiveness, Carroll said.
    It was bad advice, and Papa Kwan should not have gone over the head of the coach. But really, that's not even in the same league as Tiffany Chin's mom.

  6. #66
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In the middle of a hair war with Alena Leonova.
    Posts
    2,554
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by inthemiddle View Post
    What about Michelle Cho mom?
    What happened?

  7. #67

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,017
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990

    It seems to me that the rules should be the same for both the Kims and the Kwans -- if it is unfair to judge the one, it is unfair to judge the other. This is especially true with the "skating mom" [or "skating dad"] sobriquet. As it is, there is one problem, centered on a coach, where both parents (at least allegedly) made a bad decision. However, both parents should also be given credit for the good that they did ... including the decisions made by the Kwan, Hughes and Weir families to protect their non-skating children
    I criticize only on decisions seemingly related to skating and not if people love their kids. If Mrs Park allowed her daughter to go coachless at the Olympics, I'd criticize her. You better believe I'd criticize her. And while yes the Kwans were facing college for their kids, this was also the time of the skating boom and Michelle was already a huge star. Making your child wear a boot that hurts them makes them feel uncomfortable that is frankly dangerous. But I'm sure Danny Kwan meant well and I don't doubt He loves Michelle dearly.

    And I think its unfair to say that Kim's didn't secure their other daughter's future. The girl went to school to become a nurse. Its not like she had no education and is now waiting tables. Last I checked nursing requires some form of college education.

    First, while not as extreme as with boys, the voices of girls often change with age, so it is possible that the time window is lost.
    A lot of times the girls voices actually gets better with age, it matures as long as it wasn't damaged by oversinging etc... Its once again far more likely for the other daughter to pursue singing in her 20s than it would be for Yu-na to pursue skating in her twenties.

    Please don't get me wrong I'm not saying Mrs Park's choices were all right. I absolutely would have sent someone else with Yu-na for Aera's graduation etc.

    And I'm going to point out the Kwans had a wealthy sponsor I believe who paid for Michelle and Karen's training. The Kim's didn't have a wealthy sponsor for all those years. Whose to say the Kwans wouldn't have made hard choices and frankly didn't make hard choices. Whose to say that Johnny would have been a complete flub on the skating scene and then no college money for his kid brother?

    I feel in general that sometimes parents do different things for different kids. It doesn't mean they love one child more than the other. Its hard to judge. Perhaps if the Kims ahd made Yu-na stop skating, the entire family including Aera would have regretted it.
    Last edited by bek; 08-31-2010 at 03:00 AM.

  8. #68

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,786
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516
    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    And I think its unfair to say that Kim's didn't secure their other daughter's future. The girl went to school to become a nurse. Its not like she had no education and is now waiting tables. Last I checked nursing requires some form of college education.
    Foreign nurses often do not have nearly the same professional standing of US RNs, which are recognized in the US as both front line responders and in demand well compensated licensed professionals.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 08-31-2010 at 03:11 AM.

  9. #69

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,017
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Foreign nurses often do not have nearly the same professional standing of US RNs.
    True but I remember them saying she was in nursing school, so she's getting some kind of credentials. Its once again hardly some horrific job, and who knows it may be the job she know wants.

  10. #70

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,786
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19516
    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    True but I remember them saying she was in nursing school, so she's getting some kind of credentials. Its once again hardly some horrific job, and who knows it may be the job she know wants.
    It's not a horrific job to me since I have worked in healthcare, but some people would rather do something that does not involves lots of gloves. To be a nurse and like it does take a special kind of person because the job functions are not always pleasant.

  11. #71

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,017
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    It's not a horrific job to me since I have worked in healthcare, but some people would rather do something that does not involves lots of gloves. To be a nurse and like it does take a special kind of person because the job functions are not always pleasant.
    Oh I know. Please don't get me wrong I don't think Mrs Park was correct in everything she did. I don't understand some of the things like she did like why not just ask another parent to go with Yu-na to that competition so she could go to Aera's high school graduation, heck why not see if Yu-na can skip it. I defintely think there's more she could have done for the other daughter. Although it sounds like she even had regrets about not encouraging Aera. At the very least even without a lot of money you'd think she'd find some way to help her daughter get better at singing (free choirs etc and really at least voice lessons aren't that expensive)

    But I get quite angry when I hear this whole her poor sister's a nurse. My Grandmother is a nurse and was very proud to be so, as is my Aunt. It truly is a noble profession. And it is a profession that can give you some financial security (not make you rich) but some financial security.

    I will say I definetly cringe when I see Yu-na singing in public now after hearing about Aera. But in the end, I really don't know what I'd if I was Ms Park and I had a child prodigy little family finances, I just don't know what I'd do.. And that's why I kind of defend Mrs. Park there because while I'd like to think I'd spend equal money on all my children, I don't know what I'd do if there was an extraodinary circumstance like that.
    Last edited by bek; 08-31-2010 at 03:57 AM.

  12. #72

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    2,221
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5633
    Quote Originally Posted by Squibble View Post
    Someone in another thread suggested that some Skate Canada official could be sued for calling Yuna Kim's mother the "Queen of Skating Moms." As I learned in law school, you can always sue, but you can't always win. Also, truth is a defense to a claim for defamation.
    Yeah, but it costs a heck of a lot of money to defend yourself against such a claim (I speak from experience as a media defense attorney), so better to avoid the claim in the first place.

    Seems like all the notorious skating moms are listed, none of whom I would refer to as "Queen." Cruella? Maybe.

    O-

  13. #73

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    1 mile from Ice Rink
    Posts
    2,978
    vCash
    550
    Rep Power
    2486
    Her sister currently works as a nurse in a hospital near home.

  14. #74

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,390
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4361
    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I criticize only on decisions seemingly related to skating and not if people love their kids. If Mrs Park allowed her daughter to go coachless at the Olympics, I'd criticize her. You better believe I'd criticize her. And while yes the Kwans were facing college for their kids, this was also the time of the skating boom and Michelle was already a huge star. Making your child wear a boot that hurts them makes them feel uncomfortable that is frankly dangerous. But I'm sure Danny Kwan meant well and I don't doubt He loves Michelle dearly.

    And I think its unfair to say that Kim's didn't secure their other daughter's future. The girl went to school to become a nurse. Its not like she had no education and is now waiting tables. Last I checked nursing requires some form of college education.


    A lot of times the girls voices actually gets better with age, it matures as long as it wasn't damaged by oversinging etc... Its once again far more likely for the other daughter to pursue singing in her 20s than it would be for Yu-na to pursue skating in her twenties.

    Please don't get me wrong I'm not saying Mrs Park's choices were all right. I absolutely would have sent someone else with Yu-na for Aera's graduation etc.

    And I'm going to point out the Kwans had a wealthy sponsor I believe who paid for Michelle and Karen's training. The Kim's didn't have a wealthy sponsor for all those years. Whose to say the Kwans wouldn't have made hard choices and frankly didn't make hard choices. Whose to say that Johnny would have been a complete flub on the skating scene and then no college money for his kid brother?

    I feel in general that sometimes parents do different things for different kids. It doesn't mean they love one child more than the other. Its hard to judge. Perhaps if the Kims ahd made Yu-na stop skating, the entire family including Aera would have regretted it.
    And it is also possible that Aera may have been as successful a singer -- and it would have improved Yu-Na's skating not to have the pressure on her. We also don't know the effects of this decision on the relationship between the sisters -- sacrificing Aera's dream in favor of Yu-Na's dream is something that could easily poison the family, in the long term.

    As to the other points:

    Even if the family was sending the elder child to nursing school while financing Yu-Na's skating, it may not have been that expensive, or, there may be more help (scholarships and grants) for nursing school than for skating. If US nursing is any guide, it also does not necessarily require a college degree plus grad school (one can be an LVN without a bachelor's, for example).

    That Aera is finding a valuable career to replace her squelched dream, though, doesn't negate the damage done by the decision.

    As to some of the other things you mentioned ... first, Karen started college -- and the issue of the boot endorsement -- arose around '97 -- when Michelle had been a big star for maybe a year. Also, by California law, a big chunk of the money that Michelle earned "for creative services" (which includes sports prize money and skating shows) had to go into a trust fund for Michelle, but the endorsement money would be different. So, it is very possible that the endorsement money would have been needed for college expenses.

    Second, your post is the first I ever heard of the wealthy sponsor ... even Michelle's autobiography never mentioned having one pay all expenses for both Michelle and Karen. There is (I believe) a need requirement for the grants given by the Women's Sports Foundation -- Michelle did get one of those grants -- which indicates to me that all expenses were not paid.

    My point was simply that a parent of a young skating star making one bad decision that may affect the child's skating career, is both comparatively common and rather uncertain -- Kwan may not have won gold in SLC with Frank; Tara's hip may still have been injured even if Pat had stopped her practicing so much -- should not be compared to a parental gamble that may affect the rest of the child's life.
    Last edited by attyfan; 08-31-2010 at 04:20 AM.

  15. #75

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,017
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990
    As to some of the other things you mentioned ... your post is the first I ever heard of the wealthy sponsor ... even Michelle's autobiography never mentioned having one pay all expenses for both Michelle and Karen. There is (I believe) a need requirement for the grants given by the Women's Sports Foundation -- Michelle did get one of those grants -- which indicates to me that all expenses were not paid.
    There was an article about the owner of the Yankees who just died, who was a benefactor for Michelle Kwan and her sister.

    should not be compared to a parental gamble that may affect the rest of the child's life, such as sacrificing Aera's dreams in favor of Yu-Na's.
    To be frank if I was in Mama Kim's situation, I might perhaps if really money was that bad put Aera's dream maybe a bit on hold. Maybe not put all kind of finances in it but get her voice lessons (they can be fairly inexpensive) Encourage her to do choir etc, look into music scholarships. And I'd probably put a time limit on Yu-na's career, where I'd stop in than put more resources into Aera's.

    I do think its fair to note that her mom I guess before Aera went into university, DID feel bad about what happened and tried to do something about it. I know that sometimes parents make mistakes realize they were wrong and then apologize for it try to make it right. So I don't think its completely fair to say Aera's "life was destroyed" when she could pursue music now if she wanted. Of course that was definetly a gamble on the Kim's part.

  16. #76
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,004
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I don't get why some people like to discuss skaters' private lives let along their family's. Don't you think they deserve privacy?
    All I know is Yuna's sister has a stable professional career as a nurse and is a beautiful young lady on her own. If I were her parent, I'd be darn proud.

  17. #77

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,017
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990
    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    I don't get why some people like to discuss skaters' private lives let along their family's. Don't you think they deserve privacy?
    All I know is Yuna's sister has a stable professional career as a nurse and is a beautiful young lady on her own. If I were her parent, I'd be darn proud.
    Well nobody would be discussing Aera's missed singing dreams, if Mrs Park hadn't told the whole world about it in her book. She opened herself up to that criticism, and I wonder how Aera must have felt to have a private disappointment revealed to the entire world.

  18. #78
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,004
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Well nobody would be discussing Aera's missed singing dreams, if Mrs Park hadn't told the whole world about it in her book. She opened herself up to that criticism, and I wonder how Aera must have felt to have a private disappointment revealed to the entire world.
    I haven't read the book and I have no plan to read it.
    IMO, publishing such book is corny and discussing about it intensly isn't that cool either. Hyping of an athlete's parents might be a usual routine in Korean society but it certainly won't help her when she tries to expand her boundaries in the future. I doubt that similar stuff will ever be published again.

    But it's only my opinion and you are free to carry on.

  19. #79

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Partying with Oda
    Posts
    4,223
    vCash
    1799
    Rep Power
    33989
    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    There was an article about the owner of the Yankees who just died, who was a benefactor for Michelle Kwan and her sister.
    Really??? George Steinbrenner was a benefactor for Michelle and Karen Kwan??

  20. #80

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,825
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    37756
    He gave the Kwans $10,000 when Michelle was 13. As generous as that was and as fortunate as the Kwans were to receive such a gift, it's not as if he funded them for years.

    http://www.requiredelements.com/2010...ts-on-the-boss

    Michelle Kwan was a 13-year-old whose parents were trying to scrape up money for her skating when Yankees owner George Steinbrenner stepped up to the plate.

    Kwan, who became the most decorated figure skater in U.S. history, never would meet Steinbrenner, who died Tuesday at age 80. But she still has the "wicked cool" Yankees jacket Steinbrenner sent in response to her thank-you letter for his $10,000 contribution to her funding in the fall of 1993.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •