2010-2011 U.S. Junior Ladies & JGP assignments discussion

[chipso1]

The Russians should be the American's biggest threat if they are on form, the Japanese girls competing there aren't the strongest.

I disagree. Ovcharova is recovering from injury and Gosviani is untested internationally. Shoji has strong technical content, and Kokubun received very good marks in Brasov, and both will be skating at home (i.e., benefiting from local support and less travel time).

[bek]

Well, Kiri only beat Ellie by a few points at the JGPF, and Kiri had won both of her events. Further, Ellie beat Anna in Budapest and Anna made a pretty impressive turnaround by the time the final rolled around considering she was totally hot mess in Budapest, I think most people thought she would place/score lower than she did at the final. Angela was bombing her SPs all last season, Christina qualified by winning two bronzes, and Ksenia scored 126 at the event she won bronze at, so I'm actually not sure that it was so clear Ellie would finish last.

Notice the key words "if everyone skated decently" I wasn't saying that Ellie absolutely would finish last because Anna for example was perfectly capable of bombing. But just the fact that Ellie didn't have content that was really going to make her competitive, and nor was she as well received by the judges as lets say Baga.

Please don't get me wrong, I can except someone getting a second spot if they have lower scores/lower tech but put in a medal. But I don't see the point of giving someone a second spot if they have lower scores, technical content and didn't even medal. At the very least see how others do and give someone like Agnes (especially!) a shot at some experience.
And I agree that I thought Gong was a bit more impressive Jilai but I know that I was mainly upset about Agnes not getting the shot.

[oleada]

I disagree. Ovcharova is recovering from injury and Gosviani is untested internationally. Shoji has strong technical content, and Kokubun received very good marks in Brasov, and both will be skating at home (i.e., benefiting from local support and less travel time).

Agreed. Karen Kemanai is also very strong; and has all her triples. I don't know how Ovcharova will do after her injury, and Gosviani was VERY inconsistent last season.

[Sylvia]

I'd think giving someone like Agnes experience would have been more important long term. I'd have looked at her and Gong's 4th place finishes as a golden opportunity to give Agnes a shot (to be frank)

You sound like you are assuming that "the USA" (USFS' ICMS selection committee) were unanimous in their decision to send Kawamura to a 2nd JGP instead of Zawadzki to her 1st. It's very likely that some of the committee members voted for Zawadzki to be sent based on her impressive summer performances (that got her listed as a JGP alternate despite not having made Nationals). In the end, Kawamura won the vote. I suspect the committee members had last year, and continue to have today, differing opinions when it comes to determining specific assignments, just like we fans do.

[chipso1]

Agreed. Karen Kemanai is also very strong; and has all her triples. I don't know how Ovcharova will do after her injury, and Gosviani was VERY inconsistent last season.

I agree; both Kemanai and Shoji have been attempting 3-3s this season.

pinky, in an effort to keep this thread on topic, I've replied to you in the JGP Japan thread with jump info for the three Japanese ladies: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...54#post2875354.

[bek]

You sound like you are assuming that "the USA" (USFS' ICMS selection committee) were unanimous in their decision to send Kawamura to a 2nd JGP instead of Zawadzki to her 1st. It's very likely that some of the committee members voted for Zawadzki to be sent based on her impressive summer performances (that got her listed as a JGP alternate despite not having made Nationals). In the end, Kawamura won the vote. I suspect the committee members had last year, and continue to have today, differing opinions when it comes to determining specific assignments, just like we fans do.

I know and I understand what your saying. While I wanted Agnes to get the spot it also did anger me that they gave Ellie the second spot without at first seeing how some other girls did. It was the combination of Agnes not getting the spot, and Ellie getting one before others had performed that I disagreed with. I got Ellie did well the year before at Nationals, but she was clearly not skating that well and it would have been very unfair if Gong had actually medaled and then the US had to make a decision between Baga, Gong, and Gao! (or something like that). In the end of course Gong ended up not scoring that much better than Ellie but what if Gong had?

While in the end, Ellie vs Gong turned out not to be really that much of an injustice. It certainly would have been an injustice if Gong had not only scored higher but also medaled.

[Lanna]

Are you people still wuzrobbing Zawadzki from last year? Where's a dead horse icon when you need it.

[pinky166]

deleted post...see JGP Japan thread

[chipso1]

Kokubun scored 128.78 in Brasov, so it's not like her marks were really that high. Her FS score was around 85, and last season Anna scored 87 for her FS at Junior Worlds which she bombed. Even with Anna just coming off an injury I'd be surprised if she finished behind Kokubun. Gozviani was very good at test skates and even though she is untested internationally, her technical content will help her. There is also the possibility that Anna will not compete here, in which case another Russian girl will take her place, and all of the Russian ladies are very strong this season.

Can we take this discussion to the appropriate JGP thread?

[pinky166]

I know and I understand what your saying. While I wanted Agnes to get the spot it also did anger me that they gave Ellie the second spot without at first seeing how some other girls did. It was the combination of Agnes not getting the spot, and Ellie getting one before others had performed that I disagreed with. I got Ellie did well the year before at Nationals, but she was clearly not skating that well and it would have been very unfair if Gong had actually medaled and then the US had to make a decision between Baga, Gong, and Gao! (or something like that). In the end of course Gong ended up not scoring that much better than Ellie but what if Gong had?

While in the end, Ellie vs Gong turned out not to be really that much of an injustice. It certainly would have been an injustice if Gong had not only scored higher but also medaled.

I don't think Ellie's lesser technical content was that much of a concern. I mean, Kiri won both her GPs without having a 3loop or consistent 3lutz and 3flip. Further, Ellie is more notably strong in the area of spins, spirals, and flexibility than Kristene, and that helped her place as high as she did at her events. Despite only doing 2f from steps, she scored over 50 points in all of her SPs on the JGP last season due to the strength of her spirals and spins and high PCS. She had problems in her LPs last season, but even with the planned content, she could have placed even higher at her events than she did had she just landed the 3t and 3s more consistently. She finished 4th in Budapest after making a lot of mistakes in the LP, so the USFS probably figures that if she performed better at her 2nd event, she could probably medal and qualify for the final, which she ended up doing.

[pinky166]

comment removed

[chipso1]

This is the JGP thread...

This thread is for U.S. junior ladies discussion. Here is the JGP Japan thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=74803.

[pinky166]

Back to US ladies, does anyone know what triples Kiri attempted/landed at the competition she competed in last month? Does she have a 3lo? Are her 3lz and 3f more consistent than last season? Does her 3s and 2a still give her trouble? Last season it seemed like her 3t was the only jump she could really rely on, as I remember her falling alot on 3lz, 3s, 2a. 3f seemed pretty strong by junior worlds though. Her PCS are sure to be high in Japan if she skates well, but she also seems prone to letting mistakes get to her in the FS resulting in weaker performance quality and thus lower PCS.

[chipso1]

Back to US ladies, does anyone know what triples Kiri attempted/landed at the competition she competed in last month? Does she have a 3lo? Are her 3lz and 3f more consistent than last season? Does her 3s and 2a still give her trouble? Last season it seemed like her 3t was the only jump she could really rely on, as I remember her falling alot on 3lz, 3s, 2a. 3f seemed pretty strong by junior worlds though.

She fell on her 3S a lot? I don't remember that...

Anyway, she did land a clean 3Lo in her SP at State. I don't have anymore jump information from that competition, though.

I do have hearsay info that she was landing the 3F solid and the 3Lz was coming along nicely before her injury. I'm not expecting too much from her this JGP season because she lost so much training time, but I think she should be back on form come Nationals.

Her PCS are sure to be high in Japan if she skates well, but she also seems prone to letting mistakes get to her in the FS resulting in weaker performance quality and thus lower PCS.

I don't think we can judge Kiri's competitive mindset based on one season of junior competition.

She was thrust onto the JGP, as both of her assignments were near the end of the series (for a while it didn't appear as though she would get an initial assignment). Yes, she underperformed at both the JGPF and Nationals, but she came back incredibly strong at Jr. Worlds to score a personal best in the FS. I think it was a whirlwind 14 months for her: going from a relative unknown, to Novice U.S. champion, to competing internationally for the first time, to having to deal with the pressure of big time competitions like the JGPF. I was impressed with her mental toughness at Jr. Worlds, and hope she can feel a bit more comfortable in her international assignments this season.

[Eris]

Back to US ladies, does anyone know what triples Kiri attempted/landed at the competition she competed in last month? Does she have a 3lo?

Yes, she landed 3lo in the SP. And was very satisfied with that fact.

[pinky166]

She fell on her 3S a lot? I don't remember that...

Anyway, she did land a clean 3Lo in her SP at State. I don't have anymore jump information from that competition, though.

I do have hearsay info that she was landing the 3F solid and the 3Lz was coming along nicely before her injury. I'm not expecting too much from her this JGP season because she lost so much training time, but I think she should be back on form come Nationals.



I don't think we can judge Kiri's competitive mindset based on one season of junior competition.

She was thrust onto the JGP, as both of her assignments were near the end of the series (for a while it didn't appear as though she would get an initial assignment). Yes, she underperformed at both the JGPF and Nationals, but she came back incredibly strong at Jr. Worlds to score a personal best in the FS. I think it was a whirlwind 14 months for her: going from a relative unknown, to Novice U.S. champion, to competing internationally for the first time, to having to deal with the pressure of big time competitions like the JGPF. I was impressed with her mental toughness at Jr. Worlds, and hope she can feel a bit more comfortable in her international assignments this season.

She fell on 3sal twice in her JGPF FS and then at nationals the 3s was huge in the SP, but then very scary looking in the FS. And I don't know about not expecting much from her at the JGP, I could see her winning the event or finishing as low as like 5th or 6th. Her jumps are unpredictable because she falls a lot, but when she does land the jumps, they are really big and nice (like her 2a and 3f), so idk, I think it will just depend on if she's having a hot or cold competition come Japan. Also not having a spiral sequence in the SP could hurt her, as her spirals and flexibility are amazing and last season she'd regularly get +2s and +3s for her spiral sequences.

[Sylvia]

Lexis Verhulst (FSC of Madison, Wisconsin) edged out Gracie Gold with a total score of 125.10 to 124.67 at the Greater Chicagoland Fall Invitational this past weekend and moved into Scoretracker's Top Ten for the first time this season.

Top Ten scores from U.S. club competitions as of 9/15/10:
149.41 Gracie Gold (Skate Milwaukee) UGL/Mids
148.79 McKinzie Daniels (Broadmoor Open) SW/Mids
147.85 Angela Wang (Liberty) CP/Coasts
146.14 (tie) Courtney Hicks (Skate San Francisco) SWP/Coasts
146.14 (tie) Leah Keiser (Golden West) SWP/Coasts
138.56 Lauren Dinh (CO Championships) SW/Mids
130.80 Mary Beth Marley (Skate Detroit) UGL but may skate SWP/Coasts
129.02 Ashley Cain (Skate Detroit) SW/Mids
128.82 Polina Edmunds (Silicon Valley Open) CP/Coasts
125.10 Lexis Verhulst (Greater Chicago Fall Inv) UGL/Mids

Annie Mateya (South Atlantic region) scored a total of 117.02 to win the Junior Ladies event at the Middle Atlantics club comp. in NYC this past weekend and may now have the highest Junior Ladies score in the Eastern section (still working on updating Scoretracker with this past weekend's competition scores).

ETA: Nina Jiang (SW/Mids) scored 131.08 at the JGP in Courchevel, France, last month. Angela Wang is scheduled to make her JGP debut in Japan next week.

[Jenna]

Good for Ms. Verhulst, another skater to add to that Mids section. Good for Mateya as well, she's always been right there and it might be her turn to make Nationals.

[pinky166]

That's a really impressive score put up by Gracie Gold, I really hope she gets to compete on the JGP next season!

[Sylvia]

Moved over from the Graz JGP thread (Gao won silver and Lindsay Davis placed 12th today):

I hope USFS will give [Felicia] Zhang an assignment since she did place ahead of Wang in nationals and did okay this summer. But USFSA probably will give a 4th place finisher a second assignment (like Cesario), though given her URs last jgp I'd rather give another skater a chance.

I really hope USFS will wait for Kiri Baga's and Angela Wang's results in Japan next week before assigning a second US lady to Germany and the last 2 spots in CZE.

IF USFS is going to assign a 9th lady to a JGP this fall, then based on summer competitions (and not 2010 Nationals results) I feel Vanessa Lam has made a stronger case for herself than Felicia Zhang (who has not competed a Senior short and long program at the same competition, AFAIK?).