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  1. #21
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    14 slots/2 assignments = 7 skaters?

    ETA: So there's your limit.
    Last edited by jlai; 08-31-2010 at 01:14 AM.

  2. #22

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    The U.S. has 14 spots, though I'm sure not every skater will get 2 events, so we'll probably see more than 7 U.S. girls on the JGP.

    I, too, would like to see Angela Wang get an event. I think she could be extremely competitive with the top international girls.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    The U.S. has 14 spots, though I'm sure not every skater will get 2 events, so we'll probably see more than 7 U.S. girls on the JGP.

    I, too, would like to see Angela Wang get an event. I think she could be extremely competitive with the top international girls.
    I don't remember a year where all girls got 2--at least not for the last 5/6 years. ETA: 6-7 years, not 5-6

    Back to the question: 7 girls is your limit
    Last edited by jlai; 08-31-2010 at 03:57 AM.

  4. #24
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    On average, how many girls get 2 assignments though? Or is it purely dependent on placement/scores?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    On average, how many girls get 2 assignments though? Or is it purely dependent on placement/scores?
    In the past, the cutoff to receive a second event has been a top 4 placement in the first event. However, as Sylvia previously noted, that criteria is not necessarily in effect this year.

    Personally speaking, I would say 4/5 is most likely the cutoff again this year, because there are so many talented girls deserving of spots, and if a skater places lower than 5th in her first event, it's virtually impossible she would make the Final.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    In the past, the cutoff to receive a second event has been a top 4 placement in the first event. However, as Sylvia previously noted, that criteria is not necessarily in effect this year.

    Personally speaking, I would say 4/5 is most likely the cutoff again this year, because there are so many talented girls deserving of spots, and if a skater places lower than 5th in her first event, it's virtually impossible she would make the Final.
    Didn't Anna Ovcharova place 6th at Budapest last year though? I wonder if some of the JGP events this year will be a lot more competitive than others. The scores at Courcheval overall seemed pretty high. The thing is though, if a bunch of girls finish in say 5th place, or 4th place, at their first JGP, how does the USFSA decide who gets a 2nd event and who doesn't? I feel a little bad for Nina, because her score was pretty high and she might miss out on a 2nd event to someone else who may place higher but score lower.

  7. #27

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    Yes, but Ovcharova was a bit lucky:
    1. Imai didn't get a second assignment
    2. Charbonneau & Agafonova did not do well in their first event
    3. Nishino, Musademba and Olsson all bombed the second.
    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    The thing is though, if a bunch of girls finish in say 5th place, or 4th place, at their first JGP, how does the USFSA decide who gets a 2nd event and who doesn't? I feel a little bad for Nina, because her score was pretty high and she might miss out on a 2nd event to someone else who may place higher but score lower.
    Well, what can you do. The system isn't perfect, but the USFS has to do it's best guessing; it's kind of like fitting puzzle pieces together.

    While Jiang was pretty impressive in her debut, there are a host of girls waiting at home who could benefit from international experience too.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    Yes, but Ovcharova was a bit lucky:
    1. Imai didn't get a second assignment
    2. Charbonneau & Agafonova did not do well in their first event
    3. Nishino, Musademba and Olsson all bombed the second.
    I just checked and she actually finished 5th, so your statement is still probably true. She was 6th in the SP and LP but 5th overall. And then she won silver at her 2nd event, but she wasn't even the last skater to qualify for the final. I guess if she had finished 6th and then won her 2nd event she would have qualified too, but that would be pretty rare. The medaling at one event and bombing the other isn't all that common among juniors though, we might see that this season too.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    On average, how many girls get 2 assignments though? Or is it purely dependent on placement/scores?
    I'm going by memory here, but I'd say usually 2-3 US girls don't get a second assignment, depending on how well they compete.

    In 07-08, US girls did so well that Maxwell, who placed 3rd in her jgp, didn't get a second assignment, though Cannarozzo got a second after placing 4th in her first. I think Alba was the only one that year who didn't place top 5 in the first assignment. (Bulanhagui placed 5th but she wouldn't have gotten a second even had she placed top 4 since she competed late that year.) ETA: during 08-09, only one girl in the first half of the jgpf series didn't get a second one: Melissa Secundy.

    OTOH, last year was less successful for US girls than the previous 3-4 years. I think 4 girls didn't get a second assignment.
    Last edited by jlai; 08-31-2010 at 05:10 AM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    I'm going by memory here, but I'd say usually 2-3 US girls don't get a second assignment, depending on how well they compete.

    In 07-08, US girls did so well that Maxwell, who placed 3rd in her jgp, didn't get a second assignment, though Cannarozzo got a second after placing 4th in her first. I think Alba was the only one that year who didn't place top 5 in the first assignment. (Bulanhagui placed 5th but she wouldn't have gotten a second even had she placed top 4 since she competed late that year.)

    OTOH, last year was less successful for US girls than the previous 3-4 years. I think 4 girls didn't get a second assignment.
    But last year 5 girls DID get a 2nd assignment - Gao, Maxwell, Baga, Kawamura, and Musademba. I had forgotten about Musademba but she won her 1st event and bombed the 2nd, I thought it was the other way around.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    But last year 5 girls DID get a 2nd assignment - Gao, Maxwell, Baga, Kawamura, and Musademba. I had forgotten about Musademba but she won her 1st event and bombed the 2nd, I thought it was the other way around.
    US had three great years in jgp: 06-09, so comparably speaking, 09-10 was "less successful".

    Though I must say back when Kim/Asada were in the junior circuit, US girls didn't have great showings. 05-06 wasn't a great year either, if you look at how many US girls placed in the jgp and the jgp final

  13. #33

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    Musademba "bombed" her 2nd event because she was injured. She ended up competing watered-down programs at Sectionals, placed 4th, and then withdrew from Nationals.

    It's impossible to predict after one event, but I agree with jlai that anywhere from 2-4 girls will probably not get second events.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    In 07-08, US girls did so well that Maxwell, who placed 3rd in her jgp, didn't get a second assignment, though Cannarozzo got a second after placing 4th in her first.
    Maxwell was 3rd behind Nagasu and Gilles at the Lake Placid JGP in 2007 and only the top 2 U.S. skaters of the 3 were guaranteed a 2nd assignment if they placed high enough (the cutoff for a 2nd JGP was 4th or higher for the singles skaters in the 7 other JGPs after Lake Placid that year). I recall quite a bit of lively discussion on this board about Maxwell not getting a 2nd JGP...

    I think Alba was the only one that year who didn't place top 5 in the first assignment. (Bulanhagui placed 5th but she wouldn't have gotten a second even had she placed top 4 since she competed late that year.)
    Alba was a late replacement in the 2nd JGP for an injured Bulanhagui that year (2007). There were a total of 17 U.S. ladies JGP slots --7 received 2 JGPs apiece and 3 (Maxwell, Alba, Bulanhagui) received 1 each. 5 US ladies made the Final with Nagasu winning gold and Flatt silver.

    OTOH, last year was less successful for US girls than the previous 3-4 years. I think 4 girls didn't get a second assignment.
    5 U.S. ladies had 1 JGP assignment apiece -- Firth (5th at Lake Placid), Leng (7th at LP), Zhou (5th at POL), Diggs (13th at BLR), and Gong (4th at BLR). There was quite a lot of discussion about Gong not getting a 2nd last year...

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Maxwell was 3rd behind Nagasu and Gilles at the Lake Placid JGP in 2007 and only the top 2 U.S. skaters of the 3 were guaranteed a 2nd assignment if they placed high enough (the cutoff for a 2nd JGP was 4th or higher for the singles skaters in the 7 other JGPs after Lake Placid that year)....
    Yes, I still remember the discussion on that one.

    5 U.S. ladies had 1 JGP assignment apiece -- Firth (5th at Lake Placid), Leng (7th at LP), Zhou (5th at POL), Diggs (13th at BLR), and Gong (4th at BLR). There was quite a lot of discussion about Gong not getting a 2nd last year...
    OTOH, the discussion on Gong kind of slipped my mind.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    US had three great years in jgp: 06-09, so comparably speaking, 09-10 was "less successful".
    I don't see how having four US girls make the JGPF is not successful, especially considering it could potentially have been 5 US girls at the final had Musademba not gotten injured. The results at the final may not have been great, but it was still impressive that so many qualified.

    I'm just wondering what will happen if say Davis, Baga, Gong, all finish 5th in their first event, and Nina has already finished 5th in her first event, what the USFSA would do. Maybe would it open up a bunch of spots for other ladies to go? If those 4 girls all finish 5th, which seems very plausible finishes for all of them given the depth of the field, maybe none of them will get a 2nd assignment and then skaters like Wang, Cain, Kulgeyko, Zhang will all be given the opportunity to go to a JGP this season. That seems like a less controversial way to do it rather than chose some ladies with the same finish to get a 2nd event but not others. I remember last year thinking it was odd how Ellie got a 2nd assignment and Kristene didn't, even though they both finished 4th at their first events and Kristene actually had a higher competition score (123+) than Ellie (120+). But maybe Ellie was at an advantage because she competed at the first JGP of the season?

  17. #37

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    Like I said, the system isn't perfect and there's no way to be completely fair. I'm sure the skaters know this.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    I don't see how having four US girls make the JGPF is not successful?
    That's why I put "less successful" in quotes.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    I remember last year thinking it was odd how Ellie got a 2nd assignment and Kristene didn't, even though they both finished 4th at their first events and Kristene actually had a higher competition score (123+) than Ellie (120+). But maybe Ellie was at an advantage because she competed at the first JGP of the season?
    Just the top of my head, it's been that way for a while--the first jgp picks getting priority over the jgp alternates who got assigned late if first jgp placements are the same.

    I can't go back to check right now but Sasha Cohen got a late assignment one year because of injury issues, so despite winning her jgp, didn't get a second assignment. (Disclaimer: this is based on my foggy memory.)

    ETA: I think it was 2000, and Sasha won the 5th jgp. But again, going by memory...
    Last edited by jlai; 08-31-2010 at 06:18 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    That's why I put "less successful" in quotes.



    Just the top of my head, it's been that way for a while--the first jgp picks getting priority over the jgp alternates who got assigned late if first jgp placements are the same.

    I can't go back to check right now but Sasha Cohen got a late assignment one year because of injury issues, so despite winning her jgp, didn't get a second assignment. (Disclaimer: this is based on my foggy memory.)
    The same thing happened in Russia last year. Sofia Burikova won silver at the first JGP she went to, but because it was either the last or 2nd to last JGP of the season, she didn't get a 2nd event even though skaters like Anna and Roza who placed 5th at their first events got 2 assignments because they had earlier assignments.

  20. #40
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    Who wanted a spot for Angela Wang?) She replaces Gao in Japan: http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00007114.htm
    Christina's first start is Brasov - and it's directly before the JGP in Japan. I think it's wise decision to withdraw her I'm sure she'll get another spot somewhere else.

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