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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    How were they going to release a joint statement when Team Kim wouldn't even respond to his e-mails and wasn't even informing him of major decisions?
    You are wrong. The e-mail (as described by Orser) was what happened in May when YuNa was in Korea. In Toronto, they saw each other everyday. Why use mail. He just could tell them about joint statement. I think he had no intention to do it.

  2. #262
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    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewood View Post
    You are wrong. The e-mail (as described by Orser) was what happened in May when YuNa was in Korea. In Toronto, they saw each other everyday. Why use mail. He just could tell them about joint statement. I think he had no intention to do it.
    I totally agree. The only time when Yuna was not in Toronto was the ONE WEEK in July when she did the show in Korea. Other than that, she has always been there. Why use e-mail? He was physically close enough to her to know her LP music and the progress.
    Besides, Yuna was super busy while she was in Korea so I wouldn't be surprised if Yuna didn't have time to check e-mails.

  4. #264

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    Originally Posted by DickButtonFan
    I really think Brian accidently said what her programs were. His mind is probably not so clear right now, I'm sure he's really hurt. Cut him some slack. He's obviously a great coach and worked really hard to get yuna all she has.
    Yu-na had a lot of success before she ever stepped foot on the ice with Brian. Girl was dominating the Junior circuit and displaying an awesome technical ability (along with landing more 3loops than she ever landed as a Senior. Although no loops at Junior Worlds) To say Brian gave her everything, when Brian didn't even become her coach until after she became the Senior Grand Prix Final Champion, is just frankly unfair. He did help her some going into her Senior season, but he wasn't training her full time, and this girl had already beaten Mao at Junior worlds and was considered someone who was going to be a big star.

    And its an insult to all the coaches that worked with Yu-na before Brian to say Brian gave her everything. For example its clear to me given what I've seen from a lot of the Korean coaches, that there is someone in Korea who is extremely good at teaching toe jumps.Because as I mentioned when Yu-na came to Orser, she was always considered one of the best jumpers in the world. One could kind of argue that Brian was her Tarasova. Although she was already showing artist promise before she went to him.

    This doesn't mean that Yu-na shouldn't be grateful for how well Orser trained her and prepared her because she should. But you know what Brian should be pretty grateful to Yu-na as well. Before Yu-na came along , he was not the hottest coach on ice. He had 0 elite students. Sure watching how good Gao is getting, I definetly think Brian would have eventually became a big time coach. But lets be fair it wouldn't have happened so fast. If one of the top skaters in the world hadn't taken chance on a guy, Two time Olympic silver medalist and world champion or not, Brian still had no elite coaching experience and that was a risk. Great skater doesn't always equal great coach.

  5. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by savina View Post
    So, Orser started this fuss because he was cutted out from the show?
    No, I didn't say that. I would think that he would be more concerned over being fired as a coach without prior notice and explanation. I'm just starting to see an underlying pattern of omission by the Mama Kim camp starting possibly prior to the Olympics. I am also aware that there have been other occasions on which skaters and their agents have been cut out of the action by YuNa's past and present agents if they (according to YuNa's camp's assessment, whether correct or not and possibly even paranoid in character) were shifting the locus of attention away from YuNa. (As if that would be possible).

    ATS appears to have a culture that mandates absolute control whether or not their victims have any over what may transpire randomly or semi-randomly. They have a lot to learn about trust and professionalism. I feel sorry for YuNa regarding the rest of her life. She may garner the lion's share of money, but I believe that those around her and controlling her may never let her make her own decisions and be happy. JMO.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Yu-na had a lot of success before she ever stepped foot on the ice with Brian. Girl was dominating the Junior circuit and displaying an awesome technical ability (along with landing more 3loops than she ever landed as a Senior. Although no loops at Junior Worlds) To say Brian gave her everything, when Brian didn't even become her coach until after she became the Senior Grand Prix Final Champion, is just frankly unfair. He did help her some going into her Senior season, but he wasn't training her full time, and this girl had already beaten Mao at Junior worlds and was considered someone who was going to be a big star.

    And its an insult to all the coaches that worked with Yu-na before Brian to say Brian gave her everything. For example its clear to me given what I've seen from a lot of the Korean coaches, that there is someone in Korea who is extremely good at teaching toe jumps.Because as I mentioned when Yu-na came to Orser, she was always considered one of the best jumpers in the world. One could kind of argue that Brian was her Tarasova.

    This doesn't mean that Yu-na shouldn't be grateful for how well Orser trained her and prepared her because she should. But you know what Brian should be pretty grateful to Yu-na as well. Before Yu-na came along , he was not the hottest coach on ice. He had 0 elite students. Sure watching how good Gao is getting, I definetly think Brian would have eventually became a big time coach. But lets be fair it wouldn't have happened so fast. If one of the top skaters in the world hadn't taken chance on a guy, Two time Olympic silver medalist and world champion or not, Brian still had no elite coaching experience and that was a risk. Great skater doesn't always equal great coach.
    It's kind of funny how before all this started, everyone was raving about how great and brilliant Brian was for Yuna, what a great coach, etc., and now, it's like--he wasn't all that, it was the other coaches who worked with her before and David Wilson......

  7. #267
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    Look, it's not really that complicated. Their contract ends on April, and skater doesn't want to re-sign. It happens all the time in figure skating. I concluded we don‘t have to hold a debate, because this problem don't deserve it. Orser hope to complicate matters. His desire is at last accomplished.
    But, It is not a matter. The matter is a dirt under your feet and the matter in his mind.
    Last edited by aisurukoto; 08-26-2010 at 06:24 PM.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    When exactly do you think Brian should have announced this? When he was coaching another skater at an event and was asked how Yuna's training was going? When Yuna showed up at Worlds and Brian wasn't there?
    This I agree with. The firing was done August 2nd. Brian could not wait until the fall to make the separation public. If it came out during the Grand Prix, the media circus would have been a distraction to the other skaters. He had to say something. Yu-Na's camp was not training skaters for the Grand Prix, so they could wait forever.

    As for the actual firing, Yu-Na could have brought a translator and met with Brian. ( that's right, FACE-TO-FACE!! ) She could tell him his services were no longer needed. They could have made a JOINT statement ( that's right, TOGETHER!! ) to the news media. Each one could have thanked the other, and wished each other all happiness success in their future projects.

    Would that have been so difficult?

  9. #269
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    I didn't say Brian was the sole person to get yuna to where she is. In some of my previous posts I said that yuna was great way before Brian. I'm just saying he worked reall hard to get her that Olympic gold. She was a great skater before but Brian made her that much better. When a coach helps you get an Olympic gold it's not so nice to write on your site and imply the last four years haven't been so great. If she doesn't want to discuss it in public then don't say things like that.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Yes but Orser in another interview said that when he talked to Yu-na's mom and the translator that they were talking out of both sides of their mouth. So its possible they gave him a reason, but he didn't like their reason or think their reason was justified. (if that makes any sense)
    I think Brian must've had some idea why they decided to let him go. If he really had no idea, he would've asked why for sure. Yuna's side most likely thought that he was already fully aware of the reason, or reasons.

    But anyway, I do think Yuna should've been there when they gave him the final notice. Esp if it was her own decision as she says. She could've been there and told him directly how she'll miss him and thank him for everything and stuff...even if she didn't feel that way. You know... just to make things easier for Brian to accept. Even if most skaters part with their coaches through their agents or others (don't know if that's how it is but...), they've achieved an OGM together just a few months ago. They're not just some skater and coach who've worked together for 1 or 2 seasons, didn't make much progress and decided to part. If there was going to be a farewell like Brian seemed to have suspected beforehand according to his tv interview, he must've imagined it to be something a bit more...'touching'?

    Anyway, both sides should stop whatever damage control they think they've been doing. The world will never completely believe just one side of the story. People will go on speculating, and go on saying whatever they want about this, just like I'm doing now. Both sides should've been prepared for this. It's like a tax thing which comes along with fame, glory and fortune. Both sides should not be bothered by how people will think of them. Everyone's going to lose interest sooner or later. They just need to wait and act like they've done nothing wrong if they really think so.

    We'll never know the truth like you say. I'm not going to comment much more on this. I just didn't like the idea of some people making language problems an excuse for Yuna's tweet, and who started the talking first is absolutely not the issue. I also have to say, that if anyone was ever 'bashed' concerning this matter, it's some people who've been hanging around here who's been doing it.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewood View Post
    You are wrong. The e-mail (as described by Orser) was what happened in May when YuNa was in Korea. In Toronto, they saw each other everyday. Why use mail. He just could tell them about joint statement. I think he had no intention to do it.
    But there have been reports that she wasn't acknowledging him at the rink. And he had to find out that she was skipping the GP, and that Shae-Lynn was choreographing her short from other sources. They just weren't communicating with each other at that point.

  12. #272
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    Yuna and Brian should be EQUALLY grateful to each other. They wouldn't achieve the success they had without each other. Although of course if one of them achieves more success than the other in their subsequent careers, then it may change the public perception of who was luckier to have whom.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinku View Post
    I think Brian must've had some idea why they decided to let him go. If he really had no idea, he would've asked why for sure. Yuna's side most likely thought that he was already fully aware of the reason, or reasons.

    But anyway, I do think Yuna should've been there when they gave him the final notice. Esp if it was her own decision as she says.
    She would have, if it had been indeed the final notice.
    However, Yuna's side clearly thought it was not the final notice. They thought they were on an unofficial time off. (Why do I feel like Ross?? "WE WERE ON BREAK!!!!") At this point I'm not so sure they even wanted total breakup.

  14. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    It's kind of funny how before all this started, everyone was raving about how great and brilliant Brian was for Yuna, what a great coach, etc., and now, it's like--he wasn't all that, it was the other coaches who worked with her before and David Wilson......
    I always said from the very beginning that Yu-na's other coaches don't get enough credit for what they did for her career. Do you want me to dig up old posts like say a couple of months ago to prove it to you? Because I can absolutely prove to you that was my opinion.

    I wasn't saying Brian didn't have a big part of Yu-na's success. But he wasn't the only reason, he didn't give her everything... Its a fair thing to say. Just like its fair to say that Mishin did have a great deal to do with Yagudin's gold medal given the technical foundation Mishin gave Yags. Even if Tarasova helped him in other areas which gave him the gold.

    All I was saying is the whole "Yu-na owes Brian everything" isn't completely fair. Both should be quite thankful to each other because BOTH did a lot for the other's careers. Obviously when Yu-na picked Brian she spotted a good coach.

  15. #275
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    Same story over and over..
    nothing new?

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewood View Post
    The e-mail (as described by Orser) was what happened in May when YuNa was in Korea. In Toronto, they saw each other everyday. Why use mail. He just could tell them about joint statement. I think he had no intention to do it.
    The email Orser revealed to the media was sent to Kim in April. In an interview with SBS tonight, Orser said Kim friendly replied to Orser's April email.

    It was in July when Kim's camp didn't respond to Orser's email. At that time Kim was staying in Seoul for the ice show. Given Kim has trained alone in Toronto since June, there must have already been tension between them. Actually, ATS articulated their relationship with Orser has not been comfortable since May. But Orser seems to avoid mentioning the situation in May and June. What happened at that time?

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Yu-na had a lot of success before she ever stepped foot on the ice with Brian. Girl was dominating the Junior circuit and displaying an awesome technical ability (along with landing more 3loops than she ever landed as a Senior. Although no loops at Junior Worlds) To say Brian gave her everything, when Brian didn't even become her coach until after she became the Senior Grand Prix Final Champion, is just frankly unfair. He did help her some going into her Senior season, but he wasn't training her full time, and this girl had already beaten Mao at Junior worlds and was considered someone who was going to be a big star.

    And its an insult to all the coaches that worked with Yu-na before Brian to say Brian gave her everything. For example its clear to me given what I've seen from a lot of the Korean coaches, that there is someone in Korea who is extremely good at teaching toe jumps.Because as I mentioned when Yu-na came to Orser, she was always considered one of the best jumpers in the world. One could kind of argue that Brian was her Tarasova. Although she was already showing artist promise before she went to him.

    This doesn't mean that Yu-na shouldn't be grateful for how well Orser trained her and prepared her because she should. But you know what Brian should be pretty grateful to Yu-na as well. Before Yu-na came along , he was not the hottest coach on ice. He had 0 elite students. Sure watching how good Gao is getting, I definetly think Brian would have eventually became a big time coach. But lets be fair it wouldn't have happened so fast. If one of the top skaters in the world hadn't taken chance on a guy, Two time Olympic silver medalist and world champion or not, Brian still had no elite coaching experience and that was a risk. Great skater doesn't always equal great coach.
    I agree. I am not saying Orser isn't a great coach, but when the media looks back how great his contribution was to Yuna's success, they seem to completely neglect just how important Yuna was for Brian to build his career as one of top coaches in the industry in such a short period of time. It was Yuna who dug him out of somewhat mediocre show skater career into the full time coaching and shared her spotlight+media followings with him since 07 worlds when she made her first world record performance.

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I always said from the very beginning that Yu-na's other coaches don't get enough credit for what they did for her career. Do you want me to dig up old posts like say a couple of months ago to prove it to you? Because I can absolutely prove to you that was my opinion.

    I wasn't saying Brian didn't have a big part of Yu-na's success. But he wasn't the only reason, he didn't give her everything... Its a fair thing to say. Just like its fair to say that Mishin did have a great deal to do with Yagudin's gold medal given the technical foundation Mishin gave Yags. Even if Tarasova helped him in other areas which gave him the gold.

    All I was saying is the whole "Yu-na owes Brian everything" isn't completely fair. Both should be quite thankful to each other because BOTH did a lot for the other's careers. Obviously when Yu-na picked Brian she spotted a good coach.
    Although I quoted you, my post was not directly aimed at you--only in the general sense--so my apologies to you. I saw some posts on another website where the majority of the people now seem to think Brian didn't do all that much to help Yuna get to where she is today--that it was all David Wilson.

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by invierno View Post
    Here is how I see it. Assuming both parties are telling the truth...

    Obviously there were some problems that bothered Yuna enough to decide stop working with him.
    Yuna's side have told Brian about those problems. (Given that things started going sour in May and ATS wanted the time off in August, I don't buy Yuna's side didn't try to talk about it first before just ignoring him.)

    And then there are some possibilities...

    1) Brian thought those were trivial so he didn't take it seriously. Problems remain.
    -> Yuna's side thinks Brian already knows the problems/reasons and doing nothing to address them. They feel neglected.
    2) Translation didn't work very well and Brian doesn't really get it. Problems remain.
    -> Yuna's side thinks Brian already knows the problems/reasons and doing nothing to address them. They feel neglected.
    3) Brian knows the problems but simply can't address those problems. (Brian thinks that Yuna understands the situation and is okay with that?) Problems remain.
    -> Yuna's side thinks Brian already knows the problems/reasons ...........

    So the bottom line is, Yuna's side thinks Brian already knows the reasons, and Brian has no clue. Brian thinks 'why are you doing this to me out of the blue??' and Yuna thinks 'I've told you million times before, you know the reasons and why are you doing this to me??'
    This actually happens quite often even among very close people. (i.e. "Are you listening to me?!" "....What??") Plus there is this language-culure difference factor which doesn't help the case.

    Good job.


    even the nicest people have disagreements and sometimes it is just better for them to split.
    I totally agree with you on this point.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post


    This doesn't mean that Yu-na shouldn't be grateful for how well Orser trained her and prepared her because she should. But you know what Brian should be pretty grateful to Yu-na as well. Before Yu-na came along , he was not the hottest coach on ice. He had 0 elite students. Sure watching how good Gao is getting, I definetly think Brian would have eventually became a big time coach. But lets be fair it wouldn't have happened so fast. If one of the top skaters in the world hadn't taken chance on a guy, Two time Olympic silver medalist and world champion or not, Brian still had no elite coaching experience and that was a risk. Great skater doesn't always equal great coach.
    Well she hasn't done a great job of showing that gratitude this past month has she? However it should not be ignored that Yu Na and/or her team have consciously frozen Orser out instead of tackling any perceived problems head on; have not given him fair explanation of what was wrong when he was fired and have treated him in a most unprofessional manner as a result. Yu Na had a meeting with Orser last Thursday when she could have put an end to it all there and then. Why did she mislead him? Why did she just cry and say she was confused when she's the one who DECIDES? Team Yu Na have brought this on themselves I'm afraid. And I'm so sick of hearing this whole different cultures/miscommunication excuse, it doesn't wash.

    Of course Brian should be greatful and I'm sure he is. But if the treatment he is getting from her supposed 'fans' is the trade off I do wonder if he thinks 'was she worth it?' (And to that matter any coach soon to be approached would be well advised to consider 'is she worth it?' if this is the way they are to be treated.) Kim got waaay more from Brian than a bit of polishing and you know that. Totally biased commentary from Bezic, Browning and Tracy Wilson, all his Canadian connections leading in to Vancouver, not to mention protection from the media in Korea. That's a helluva bridge she just burnt IMO.

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