Four years ago...

[Nomad]

Agreed. 3t-3t is nothing to sneeze at. It may not be the most difficult 3-3 combination, but it's still a 3-3 and the fact that so many European ladies can do that and few American ladies can is saying something.

I'm surprised that there's a German lady who can do it. The level of skating among the German ladiezzz is rather low and has been since Savczenko retired. Dytrt seems to be the only one with a lutz and flip in her arsenal but she crash-lands so many jumps that it doesn't really make any difference on the international stage.

[hanca]

Well, as far as I understand it, Dytrt did not manage to qualify herself for Olympics (meet the marks that were set by the German skating association), whereaz Sarah Hecken did, so maybe a new German lady is on the rise. I think she was still quite young, so she may be a good skater in the future.

Just remembered, Sarah Hecken may not be doing 3loop and 3 flip, but the whole last season she was attempting 3Lutz. I don't think she managed to land it in bigger competition though (I am not sure if I remember correctly, but I think at Olympics she singled it and at Worlds it was downgraded, or something like that) but I assume that she can do it otherwise she wouldn't be putting it in in both competitions. I don't remember if she landed it in smaller competition (GP or any other smaller event).

[pinky166]

Well, as far as I understand it, Dytrt did not manage to qualify herself for Olympics (meet the marks that were set by the German skating association), whereaz Sarah Hecken did, so maybe a new German lady is on the rise. I think she was still quite young, so she may be a good skater in the future.

Just remembered, Sarah Hecken may not be doing 3loop and 3 flip, but the whole last season she was attempting 3Lutz. I don't think she managed to land it in bigger competition though (I am not sure if I remember correctly, but I think at Olympics she singled it and at Worlds it was downgraded, or something like that) but I assume that she can do it otherwise she wouldn't be putting it in in both competitions. I don't remember if she landed it in smaller competition (GP or any other smaller event).

Sarah was attempting 3lo and 3lz last year, though she strugggled with both jumps a bit. She did very well at Worlds though, finishing 12th with a score of about 150. I think she is definitely capable of being competitive on the European stage, and potentially even medaling at Euros this season.

[Nomad]

Being half German and having lived there on and off since birth, I'm all for a German lady who can make a good showing on the European/World level. I've been hoping for good things from Sarah since she won the national title in 2008. If she can master the harder jumps and polish up her other elements, I'll be very happy.

[mgobluegirl]

If she can master the harder jumps and polish up her other elements, I'll be very happy.

...and not wear that dreadful thing she did last year, please.

[Nomad]

...and not wear that dreadful thing she did last year, please.

Which dreadful thing? The PR Christian Sirano chocolate dirndl or the PR Kayne Gillaspie blue floral table cloth?

[Jenna]

Sarah is a powerful jumper, but her spinning needs and her spirals () need a serious overhaul, in addition to her presentation. She is no doubt gifted, but if she wants to make herself a serious contender for Euros...much work is needed.

[chipso1]

Which dreadful thing? The PR Christian Sirano chocolate dirndl or the PR Kayne Gillaspie blue floral table cloth?

Not cute.

I had forgotten about this one!

[mgobluegirl]

I was thinking of this

I'm not sure if she wore that for the Olympics, but ick.

[hanca]

Not cute.

I had forgotten about this one!

I don't mind those two. While I would probably not choose them for myself, I think there were some worse around last season.

[hanca]

I was thinking of this

I'm not sure if she wore that for the Olympics, but ick.

Yes, this one is a bit .....

[pinky166]

Sarah is a powerful jumper, but her spinning needs and her spirals () need a serious overhaul, in addition to her presentation. She is no doubt gifted, but if she wants to make herself a serious contender for Euros...much work is needed.

Spirals aren't worth much anymore, they took it out of the SP and in the FS it's just judged on GOE. Her spins need work yes, but as long as she can learn to get high levels on her spins, I think she will be fine. Plenty of top skaters can get high levels on spins without being very flexible or having the spins look beautiful (Rachael, Joannie, Miki come to mind). Sarah is also tall and thin so that helps her look more graceful on the ice even though she isn't the smoothest skater out there. And honestly, it's Euros, until those little Russian girls are old enough to compete, the field isn't looking too deep.

[mia joy]

As far as I know, from North American ladies you could see 3-3 only from Zhang, Nagasu, Wagner and Flat (feel free to add some more if I forgot anyone) and they did not risk it at all competitions either, so why are you criticising europeans ladies? Having about 6 european ladies with 3-3 is not bad at all.

I don't know, maybe because I'm so desperate to finally see a European girl capable of taking the battle against Asian and American ladies. And ok, there may be just a few Americans who can do 3-3, but once they can, it's usually more than just 3t-3t. Besides, it's kind of lame if you ask me to be proud of your tremedous 3t-3t, when at the same time you cannot do a solid triple lutz or flip, like some of the Europeans. I mean, having Laura Lepisto as the best European skater at Worlds is kind of depressing for me... What I mean is, Americans at least try. Europeans seem to have given up and loving their 3t-3t as it was something that awesome.
Perhaps I'm mean or unfair or sound not objective at all, but as a European I would really like to see some new Slutskaya once in a while... I would also like to feel at least a bit excited when I'm at Euros and it's Saturday, because past few years, you couldn't help but fall asleep in the stands...

[pinky166]

^^ Polina Shelepen, 15, just landed 7 triples and 2 double axels, including a 2a-3t and 2a-3t-2t combination, in her FS yesterday at the first JGP event of the season. Her teammate, Roza Sheveleva, 14, landed 5 triples and 2 double axels in her FS at the same event. The two girls claimed the gold and bronze medals for Russia, and they landed lutzes and flips in their programs and without any edge calls even, so just wait a few years and the European prospects should be more exciting.

[hanca]

And another Russian, young Tutkamysheva, has a triple axel. I think soon it may be American girls who are going to be staying behind...

[eyh201]

Perhaps I'm mean or unfair or sound not objective at all, but as a European I would really like to see some new Slutskaya once in a while... I would also like to feel at least a bit excited when I'm at Euros and it's Saturday, because past few years, you couldn't help but fall asleep in the stands...

Well, I think you'll be excited at the 2014 Olympics. Lots of terrific Russian junior skaters are waiting to compete on senior circuit.

[hanca]

And ok, there may be just a few Americans who can do 3-3, but once they can, it's usually more than just 3t-3t. Besides, it's kind of lame if you ask me to be proud of your tremedous 3t-3t, when at the same time you cannot do a solid triple lutz or flip, like some of the Europeans. I mean, having Laura Lepisto as the best European skater at Worlds is kind of depressing for me... What I mean is, Americans at least try. Europeans seem to have given up and loving their 3t-3t as it was something that awesome.

Well, let's clarify something:
Americans at least try, whereas European ladies are happy with their
3T-3T?

Olympics: Flat did 3F-3T in her SP, Nagasu did not do any 3-3 in her SP.
Flat did 3F-3T, which was downgraded in her FS, Nagasu did not do any 3-3 in her FS.

Worlds - Nagasu did 3Lz-3T in her SP, but it was downgraded. Flat did not do any 3-3 in her SP. Neither Flat nor Nagasu did any 3-3 in their FS.

4 continets- Dobbs, Zhang and Gilles did not do any 3-3 combinations at all in neither SP nor FS.

That much for Americans at least trying.

As I see it, European ladies are trying. You can't really blame them for not trying harder combinations at competitions if they can't land them clean, but the strategy while competing and being marked is to try to get as many points as possible, so still better to land clean 3T-3T, than trying for 3F-3T (or 3Lz-3T) and have it downgraded.

However, as the rules re: marking underrotations eased off for this season, I do believe that there will be more skaters willing to risk 3-3.

[hanca]

I forgot to add, it does look like if european ladies are so much behind North american ladies, but if you take out the results of Asian ladies, you may see that actually European ladies and North american ladies were pretty equal at Worlds.

Worlds:
3 Laura LEPISTO FIN
5 Cynthia PHANEUF CAN
6 Carolina KOSTNER ITA
7 Mirai NAGASU USA
8 Ksenia MAKAROVA RUS
9 Rachael FLATT USA
10 Viktoria HELGESSON SWE
12 Sarah HECKEN GER
13 Alena LEONOVA RUS
14 Jenna MCCORKELL GBR
15 Julia SEBESTYEN HUN

Though I have to admit that european ladies were badly beaten at Olympics.

Olympics:
3 ROCHETTE Joannie CAN
4 NAGASU Mirai USA
6 LEPISTO Laura FIN
7 FLATT Rachael USA
9 LEONOVA Alena RUS
10 MAKAROVA Ksenia RUS
11 KORPI Kiira FIN
12 PHANEUF Cynthia CAN
14 GEDEVANISHVILI Elene GEO
15 MEIER Sarah SUI
16 KOSTNER Carolina ITA

[mia joy]

Well, I think you'll be excited at the 2014 Olympics. Lots of terrific Russian junior skaters are waiting to compete on senior circuit.

yes, that's exactly what I meant by my first post, starting this whole discussion...

and I still value trying 3lz-3t or 3f-3t and having it downgraded or falling or making any other mistake more than a clean 3t-3t (that is why, for example, Kostner is still a better skater for me than, lets take Lepisto). But that's just me, I like it when they risk. Same goes for Mao's 3a and men's quads.

[Nomad]

Maybe now that downgrades aren't quite so harsh more ladies will attempt the harder 3-3s. For most of the past quad the penalties for URs have been ridiculous.