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Thread: Black Swan

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    Pasha Grishiuk would club her knees to get the part first.
    But just think of the pre-movie publicity that would generate.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    How can a movie make a person feel violated? I know I haven't seen it but I have watched some seriously fecked up movies and I never forget that it is just a movie. No movie has ever been able to truly offend me, at least not enough to walk out or turn it off (unless it just sucked, anyway).
    Not sure. I personally didn't feel violated. I found myself laughing more than I probably should have. The only movie in recent memory that was draining for me was Oldboy. Now that movie was a real thriller with an intended ending and even with the theme of

    Spoiler

    , I didn't feel violated. I certainly felt because the director really knew how to work the human emotion element into story.

    Maybe Jeremy was joking or it wasn't his cup of tea

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    I just saw it and I loved it. Portman was outstanding in the role.

    As for Jeremy feeling violated, maybe he understands what Portman's character is going through in the film...all that pressure going into one's head and making them feel as if everything is just tail-spinning out of control. Maybe it hit close to home.
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  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    How can a movie make a person feel violated? I know I haven't seen it but I have watched some seriously fecked up movies and I never forget that it is just a movie. No movie has ever been able to truly offend me, at least not enough to walk out or turn it off (unless it just sucked, anyway).
    I think I can understand a little. Although I wouldn't call it offensive, Boy in the Striped Pajamas seriously screwed with my head. I think it's the only movie I've seen where I was sucked in to the point of being unable to be the least bit objective or detached about the experience. I was sitting there telling myself "It's just a movie, it's just a movie," but it didn't help -- as far as I was concerned, that sucker was real.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I just saw it and I loved it. Portman was outstanding in the role.

    As for Jeremy feeling violated, maybe he understands what Portman's character is going through in the film...all that pressure going into one's head and making them feel as if everything is just tail-spinning out of control. Maybe it hit close to home.
    And, sorry for those who already read my rant in SS, I saw it yesterday and loathed it. I understand why Jeremy felt violated, I was sickened and outraged at the subtext, which believe me doesn't happen to me in movies. (Generally I don't understand people who picket movies or take them too seriously.)

    Clearly this is a love-it-or-hate-it movie.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    Clearly this is a love-it-or-hate-it movie.
    Yeah, the people I know who have seen either love it or despise. I love it, but I typically like that type of movie and I'm a huge Aronofsky fan (I skipped class when I was in undergrad to go see Pi).
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    And, sorry for those who already read my rant in SS, I saw it yesterday and loathed it. I understand why Jeremy felt violated, I was sickened and outraged at the subtext, which believe me doesn't happen to me in movies. (Generally I don't understand people who picket movies or take them too seriously.)

    Clearly this is a love-it-or-hate-it movie.
    Hmmm...I'm planning on seeing it later this week, but you guys are scaring me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    And, sorry for those who already read my rant in SS, I saw it yesterday and loathed it. I understand why Jeremy felt violated, I was sickened and outraged at the subtext, which believe me doesn't happen to me in movies. (Generally I don't understand people who picket movies or take them too seriously.)

    Clearly this is a love-it-or-hate-it movie.
    What about the subtext outraged you so much? You can post in spoilers in you like . I am debating going to see it, but I'm very on the fence. I'm usually not one for terribly intense thrillers, and I am sensitive to gore and movies that use disturbing subject matter to shock the viewer. I'm also concerned that I won't be able to stand Kunis' and Portman's "ballet" . But the film intrigues me, and I'm a sucker for anything ballet-related, as long as the dancing is not painful to watch. I adore Center Stage .

  9. #109
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    Center Stage was nice because they used actual dancers. It also wasn't that serious though, so it was easier to use people who weren't as used to acting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satellitegirl View Post
    Center Stage was nice because they used actual dancers. It also wasn't that serious though, so it was easier to use people who weren't as used to acting.
    Center Stage is my dad's favorite movie I think that and his proclivity to listen to Madonna in the shower has made many of us question a few things

    I do like the movie, though, and the dancing was nice. I thought the dancing in The Company was brilliant, but the movie itself was fairly bland.
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyCharm View Post
    Hmmm...I'm planning on seeing it later this week, but you guys are scaring me.
    I loved it, but I can definitely see it as a love-it-or-hate-it movie. It is very over-the-top and operatic so it depends a lot on how you feel about that sort of thing. For me, I haven't felt for a character like I did for Natalie Portman's in any other film I've seen this year.

  12. #112

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    It is playing in town even though I thought the nation wide release was Dec 22. My bf and I were going to see it tonight but have decided on seeing Tron instead.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Looking at Royal Ballet's Nutcracker right now, and their Sugar Plum is not only short, she's very short even next to the other women. (Don't know her name.)
    Alina Cojocaru, maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satellitegirl View Post
    Center Stage was nice because they used actual dancers. It also wasn't that serious though, so it was easier to use people who weren't as used to acting.
    Center Stage was nice because Ilia Kulik was in it His was my favorite non-actor performance in a movie since Alexander Godunov in "Witness", although he had competition from Julie Kent's wicked turn in CS, and Antoinette Sibley's, "Richard is why I'm not going to end up like Emma" line in "The Turning Point". (Sibley was a lovely Giselle when the camera wasn't cutting to reaction shots in the audience, my favorite of those being Starr Danias' when she sat up and leaned forward when Sibley started to do beats.)

    There are some wonderful outtakes of Sasha Radetsky in the DVD extras.

    I remember reading the movie called the "Law and Order" actor full-employment plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    What about the subtext outraged you so much? You can post in spoilers in you like . I am debating going to see it, but I'm very on the fence. I'm usually not one for terribly intense thrillers, and I am sensitive to gore and movies that use disturbing subject matter to shock the viewer. I'm also concerned that I won't be able to stand Kunis' and Portman's "ballet" . But the film intrigues me, and I'm a sucker for anything ballet-related, as long as the dancing is not painful to watch. I adore Center Stage .
    Not outraged but and yet on the gimmicks:

    Spoiler


  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indra486 View Post
    Not outraged but and yet on the gimmicks:

    Spoiler

    I haven't seen it but I totally get it this particular point.

    Spoiler

    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    What about the subtext outraged you so much? You can post in spoilers in you like . I am debating going to see it, but I'm very on the fence. I'm usually not one for terribly intense thrillers, and I am sensitive to gore and movies that use disturbing subject matter to shock the viewer.
    To quote my own post elsewhere:

    "the basic idea is of a frightened, perfectionist, little mommy's girl who (at the behest of a domineering male, of course) LET'S OUT her sexuality and then of course goes crazy and (depending on how you interpret the ending) ends up dead. Can we say Victorian? Can we say low-rent Jungian bullshit draped in some headache-causing shaky-camera cinematography and way too many closeups of suffering female flesh?"

    If masturbation made great ballerinas, there would be a lot more interesting things going on in ballet classes. Or, to put it differently, the movie's treatment of female sexuality was so rooted in male fantasy -- and of course, the screenwriters and director are male -- that it swamped the story, such as it was. No matter how well-dressed, misogyny is misogyny, and I profoundly distrust any tired old trope of what repressed women "need" to accomplish creativity and fulfillment.

    And btw, I'm not one of those doctrinaire boring old feminists who see patriarchy everywhere they look. This movie is so blatant and so stupid, not to mention the gratutitious grossness, it just disgusted me.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    To quote my own post elsewhere:

    "the basic idea is of a frightened, perfectionist, little mommy's girl who (at the behest of a domineering male, of course) LET'S OUT her sexuality and then of course goes crazy and (depending on how you interpret the ending) ends up dead. Can we say Victorian?
    That's bad IMO. The message that if you let out your sexuality, it will kill you is and is indeed very Victorian.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    If masturbation made great ballerinas, there would be a lot more interesting things going on in ballet classes.
    Um, from the sound of it, it looks like it's about being comfortable with your own sexuality, both metaphorically and literally. I do think that makes for a better Odile.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    Or, to put it differently, the movie's treatment of female sexuality was so rooted in male fantasy -- and of course, the screenwriters and director are male -- that it swamped the story, such as it was. No matter how well-dressed, misogyny is misogyny, and I profoundly distrust any tired old trope of what repressed women "need" to accomplish creativity and fulfillment.

    And btw, I'm not one of those doctrinaire boring old feminists who see patriarchy everywhere they look. This movie is so blatant and so stupid, not to mention the gratutitious grossness, it just disgusted me.
    I will take your word for it. Aronofsky's style is too OTT for me anyway. The gratuitous grossness sealed it for me.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  18. #118

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    I'm going to see this either tomorrow night or Wednesday .

  19. #119

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    PR Lady --I think you have a new career as a film critic. Your comments were more coherent than many reviews I've seen that left me wondering, "what the heck?"

    A friend has a whole bunch of screeners and we're doing dinner and a movie with some folks next week. I think I'm going to advocate for anything but Black Swan.

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    To quote my own post elsewhere:

    Or, to put it differently, the movie's treatment of female sexuality was so rooted in male fantasy -- and of course, the screenwriters and director are male -- that it swamped the story, such as it was. No matter how well-dressed, misogyny is misogyny, and I profoundly distrust any tired old trope of what repressed women "need" to accomplish creativity and fulfillment.
    Great post, PR Lady. I agree and had similar thoughts, especially during the lesbian scene. Sorry if I need a spoiler tag - I don't know how to insert one. Can someone please tell me?

    What you said is an example of how a person can feel violated by a film. It happens when a film's viewpoint or subtext is deeply offensive, and can occur in all sorts of contexts.

    I found the film's cinematography riveting, but the theme of a woman's descent into madness and death a bit tiresome to be honest. I enjoyed Requiem for a Dream much more and found it way more intense. I found the theme of addiction way more gripping and applicable to 'real life' in the general sense and the director's treatment Ellen Burstryn's descent - and Burstyn's acting - brilliant.
    Last edited by Japanfan; 12-21-2010 at 04:49 AM.

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