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  1. #41
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    The skaters are in the order how much I have enjoyed their performances:

    1. Kim
    2. Arakawa
    3. Cohen
    4. Nagasu
    5. Butirskaya
    6. Chen
    7. Kwan 1996-1998 spring
    8. Slutskaya 1996-1998 spring
    9. Poykio
    10. Lepisto

    I´m sure that Yamaguchi would be on my list otherwise, but I did not follow ladies skating in those days.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    10.) Sasha Cohen (even though I'm not a fan, she was the one who started the gumby spirals and spin positions)
    I think you can thank Denise Beillman for that.

    O-

  3. #43
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    1. Michelle Kwan
    2. Yu-na Kim
    3. Irina Slutskaya
    4. Midori Ito
    5. Kristi Yamaguchi

  4. #44
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    In no particular order:
    Michelle Kwan
    Yu-Na Kim
    Midori Ito
    Kristi Yamaguchi
    Maria Butyrskaya
    Irina Slutskaya
    Shizuka Arakawa
    Mao Asada
    Joannie Rochette
    Yuka Sato
    Last edited by museksk8r; 08-24-2010 at 11:40 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    I think you can thank Denise Beillman for that.

    O-
    Yes, I am so tired of this perpetual lie that Cohen "started" the flexibility craze. The credit goes to Denise Biellmann, Natalia Mishkutenok, and Nicole Bobek who all came before her.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Yes, I am so tired of this perpetual lie that Cohen "started" the flexibility craze. The credit goes to Denise Biellmann, Natalia Mishkutenok, and Nicole Bobek who all came before her.
    How did Denise or Natalia started the flexibility craze? They're were flexible, but I don't see them influencing other skaters to copy them at all. How many female skaters outside of Denise was doing the Beillman in the 70s? How many femail pair skaters became crazily flexible during the period that Natalia and Artur were at the top? I don't recall many, if any at all.

    The flexibility craze has to be credited to COP. Once skaters realized that they can get points by pretzeling their bodies into different positions, that was when we saw people pulling their legs and arms in every directions.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    How did Denise or Natalia started the flexibility craze? They're were flexible, but I don't see them influencing other skaters to copy them at all. How many female skaters outside of Denise was doing the Beillman in the 70s?

    The flexibility craze has to be credited to COP. Once skaters realized that they can get points by pretzeling their bodies into different positions, that was when we saw people pulling their legs and arms in every directions.
    I agree with you regarding the pairs skaters. But Biellmann? Heck yeah, she directly influenced countless ladies skaters, who did the Biellmann spin long before COP. Even Plushenko was doing Biellmann spins before COP. With that move alone, Denise influenced as many skaters as anyone else I can think of.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    The flexibility craze has to be credited to COP. Once skaters realized that they can get points by pretzeling their bodies into different positions, that was when we saw people pulling their legs and arms in every directions.
    This I can agree on! COP is certainly responsible for more emphasis on flexibility in spins and spirals due to skaters receiving higher levels and GOE points as a result of all the position changes; however, for anyone to credit this emphasis to Sasha Cohen is crazy talk. Denise Biellmann came 2 decades before anyone knew of Sasha Cohen as an elite skater.

  9. #49

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    I would consider Sasha responsible for the gumby craze. Look how many US Skaters can bend all crazy sorts of ways, get it all sorts of crazy spin positions, but cannot properly land a jump...focus on pilaties more than a lutz. That is all due to Sasha and people seeing how she was able to score high in the COP. All little girsl trying to imitate her. I really don't think it is due to Denise Biellmann or Nicole Bobeck. No one is saying Sasha invented those positions but she certainly had a hand in making them the norm.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    I would consider Sasha responsible for the gumby craze. Look how many US Skaters can bend all crazy sorts of ways, get it all sorts of crazy spin positions, but cannot properly land a jump...focus on pilaties more than a lutz. That is all due to Sasha and people seeing how she was able to score high in the COP. All little girsl trying to imitate her. I really don't think it is due to Denise Biellmann or Nicole Bobeck. No one is saying Sasha invented those positions but she certainly had a hand in making them the norm.
    Yeah that's what I think. Although I will say that if Sasha had been competing in this quad against the likes of Kim, Asada, Ando, Rochette, Suzuki, etc, I don't think she would have gotten as good results as she did back when she competed. I mean, Czisny and Zhang are extraordinarily flexible but haven't really made it to the top internationally because of their jumps, I tend to think the same would have been true with Sasha. 3-3s were not a big deal 8 or even 4 years ago, and that's why I think Sasha was able to do so well for herself then.

  11. #51
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    I'm not sure if I'd call Sasha inferior to Miki Ando, Joannie Rochette, or Akiko Suzuki..

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I'm not sure if I'd call Sasha inferior to Miki Ando, Joannie Rochette, or Akiko Suzuki..
    In terms of her technical difficulty, I would. I wasn't referring to her all around package, just her arsenal and success rate of jumps. Sasha never had a 3-3, has never skated a clean LP, usually attempted two 3sals in her LP, and had a tendency to frontload the jumps her programs. Her spins and spirals are much better than the ladies I mentioned above, but under COP, jumps count for more, as getting high levels on spins and spirals is fairly easy for most elite skaters and flexibility only counts toward GOE, which is rewarded less on spins than it is on jumps.

  13. #53
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    I think Sasha in her prime would do fine if she had been in her prime the last quad. I was one the people predicting people were drastically overrating her chances before her comeback but I think had she been in her prime these last 4 years and built up her reputation the same way, etc...she would have been competitive. I dont think their is any era in history Sasha would have dominated. She just doesnt have the consistency, the jumping ability, or the basics.

    However I think her chances to nab a major title at some point might have even been higher in the last quad than the 2003-2006 one. You often had Kwan, Slutskaya, or Arakawa skating perfectly in big events those 4 years, so Sasha even with 1 or 2 mistakes would not be able to win. This past quad the only ones to win big events skating perfectly were Ando in 2007, and Kim at the 2010 Olympics. Asada IMO skated perfectly at the 2010 Worlds but unfortunately with 2 major downgrades that isnt how it really panned out scoring wise. The only ones I would say were unbeatable were Kim at the 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics. I am not saying Sasha would have had an easy time winning a major title in this era but I think she might have been able to sneak out a victory at an event like the 2008 Worlds which is an example of an event Sasha could have won with one of her better competitions with 1 or 2 blunders.

    I do think she would have been almost always in the top 4 and most times on the podium in this era like in her own too. If Rochette and Cohen were in their actual primes together, assuming the reputation factor, etc...I see Cohen coming out ahead most times. Rochette has consistency problems and never skates clean competitions either. Cohen would get the higher PCS and would score higher on the non jump elements. Rochette does harder jumps and would get more GOE on her good jumps but that is it. Rochette's basic skating is better, but the judges never cared much about Sasha's lack of basics, edge quality, speed, or power in her PCS in the past and probably wouldnt now either. I also think unless Ando skated lights out like the 2007 Worlds Cohen in her prime would most times beat her too. And Kostner who never skates close to cleanly even in her better competitions wouldnt be much of a problem for prime Cohen.

    And prime Cohen wouldnt even be competing with someone like Suzuki since Suzuki would never come close to her in a big event even if Sasha skated poorly. Good for Suzuki to finally make an Olympic and World team probably late in her career but seriously what is with the buildup with this skater from so many on this forum. She isnt a big name or a real contender at all, and probably never will be.

  14. #54
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    ^^ Good point, this Cohen was pretty baller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdtieKCRRkQ. I guess that was before she hit puberty though so it's maybe to be expected. Still, I miss that Sasha, she was mighty impressive for 15.

  15. #55
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    agree with judgejudy completely re: Cohen vs. Rochette/Ando/Kostner/Suzuki

  16. #56

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    The fact that Sasha could not win 2006 worlds tells me that no matter what era she skated in, she never would have won a big title. I am not saying that to be mean but seriously...the fact that she could not secure the world title that year is just...sad. It should have been a walk in the park for her.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    The fact that Sasha could not win 2006 worlds tells me that no matter what era she skated in, she never would have won a big title. I am not saying that to be mean but seriously...the fact that she could not secure the world title that year is just...sad. It should have been a walk in the park for her.
    You could well be right. I guess for me since that was a one time thing where she had such an easy path to a gold medal and completely blew it, I give her the benefit of the doubt. At events like the 2003 Nationals, 2004 Nationals, 2005 Nationals (sort of), 2004 Worlds, 2005 Worlds, and 2006 Olympics she ran into Kwan, Slutskaya, or Arakawa skating perfectly so had to skate clean to win, and she has proven over the years it is pretty unrealistic to expect her to skate completely clean. With a bit more margin for error though maybe she would just completely implode like the 2006 Worlds though. In that case she is a bigger headcase than maybe I realize she is.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    ^^ Good point, this Cohen was pretty baller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdtieKCRRkQ. I guess that was before she hit puberty though so it's maybe to be expected. Still, I miss that Sasha, she was mighty impressive for 15.
    I thought this was a link to a clean performance and was watching with baited breath but then she 2-footed 2 jumps and fell on a triple toe.

  19. #59
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    1. Midori Ito (3a)
    2. Oksana Baiul (Ballet on ice)
    3. Michelle Kwan (Worlds 5times Queen)
    4. Mao Asada (3a-2t)
    5. Miki Ando (quad)
    6. Tara Lipinski (3lo-3lo)
    7. Sasha Cohen (Very beautiful spiral)
    8. Kristi Yamaguchi
    9. Irina Slutskaya
    10.Shizuka Arakawa
    10.Sarah Hughes

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    agree with judgejudy completely re: Cohen vs. Rochette/Ando/Kostner/Suzuki
    I prefer to watch all 4 of them over Sasha any day.

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