Surya's quad toe absolutely should have been ratified. Her quads at the 91 Worlds and 92 Olympics were better than any Kurt Browning ever landed and his were ratified. Just shows how the influence of the people high up in the ISU coming into play IMHO.
That said I never saw her do what would qualify as even a decent attempt at a quad salchow. The ones I saw her try in competition were pretty much a disaester. Maybe there was a good one but I sure never saw it.
Surya's quad toe attempts were better than her Salchow attempts, for sure.
She definitely had a terrific triple Salchow though -- great lift.
I think my favorite combo ever was her split jump 3T half loop 3S sequence. I think she even tacked a 2T to the end of that once.
That combo wouldn't count under COP nowadays since it would be called a 3T+1Lo+3S+2T (a four jump combination).
Well, her skating was horrid. I did try to look past it while watching clips, but there was no getting past it. She literally fell flat with all extremities spread at the beginning of her 1991 Worlds LP while doing forward skating.
Originally Posted by judgejudy27
It would have been hard for me to give Surya a trump card over Midori and Tonya in the record books when she did not have the skills to be called a ''skater''.
Last edited by bardtoob; 09-21-2010 at 04:14 AM.
Call me crazy, but if Surya worked on her basics and had the right coaches, she could've been great.
She was athletic, flexible, and had great showmanship, even at a young age. I just watched her 1991 short program, and horrendous stroking and edging aside, it was actually an interesting program.
She did make efforts to improve later in her career, but relied too much on acrobatics. When her jumps left her, she didn't have much to rely on. I did love her "Caravan" program from Nagano though -- played to all her strengths.
Well Midori and Tonya never even pursued the quad in competition. Had either I am pretty sure they could have managed it, but obviously with big titles on the line for both (moreso than a young Surya) it wouldnt have been worth the pursuit.
Originally Posted by bardtoob
I wouldnt look at it as her taking anything away from them. Nobody would think she was the best overall jumper just since she was the one to first do a quad.
Midori won the Olympic silver medal in 1992, and the world silver in 1990, so she definitely belongs on this list. She was the first lady to land the triple axel in the Olympics (1992)- that's another reason for putting her on the list. Actually I would place her much higher than #10. She truly was one of the greatest skaters of all time.
Originally Posted by shady82
I pretty much agree with the top 10 list you have. I may replace either Oksana or Sasha with Chen Lu.
Last edited by Vash01; 09-21-2010 at 08:25 AM.
This is my top 10 list (it's tough to rank them, but I was tempted to)
1. Michelle Kwan: best all around and dominant skater of her era, even without an OGM
2.Midori Ito: she revolutionized ladies skating. Even without an OGM I had to rank her slightly above Kristi, who was a great skater too.
3. Kristi Yamaguchi: I am more impressed with her pro skating than her OGM. Her consistency and longevity is unbelievable.
4.Irina Slutskaya- Her athleticism, 3-3 combinations and longevity made me place her ahead of Yu na, who could easily climb up on my list in the next few years.
5. Yu-na Kim: Her Olympic performance blew me away. I have never seen anyone handle that kind of pressure so well.
6.Mao Asada: Two triple axels in an LP and one in the SP- I think many men will envy that. She has lovely posture, lines too. It's only a matter of time before she really comes into her own.
7. Tara Lipinski: A very short career, but her Olympic title with the 3R-3R and the world tile a year earlier, plus the youngest skater to achieve those, give her my vote (even though I am not her fan).
8. Shizuka Arakawa: One of the most complete skaters. Success came late to her, after many mediocre years, or she would have been much higher on this list.
9. Oksana Baiul: When she was young, her artistry was amazing. She was always in a perfect position, and there was such heart in her skating!
10.Chen Lu: After much debate I decided to place Chen Lu above Sasha Cohen for this last spot. Sasha may be the most beautiful skater ever, and she influenced others to use their flexibility to create pretty pictures on the ice. However, her inability to win major competitions made me pick Chen Lu over her. Still, very close. I did not want a tie for any of my picks.
Originally Posted by judgejudy27
However, upon inspection with my CoP eyes, I can now see that Surya's 4T was two footed, which made it unratifiable by 6.0 standards. The tell tale sign was the way her free leg bounced up when she checked the landing. When I looked closer, her free foot was indeed still forward and hit the ice upon landing.
Last edited by bardtoob; 09-21-2010 at 04:01 PM.
From a 3t landing you have to do a 0.5 loop to do the 3 salchow, so it's not a 4-jump combination. IMO it would be a 3-jump sequence.
Originally Posted by all_empty
I think you are right, even if I'm not a specialist about CoP for jumps !
Originally Posted by Vash01
But the problem of sequences is the factor x0.8, so that this sequence wouldn't give more points than a 3T/3T/2T...very weird point in CoP !
Rule change this year, I think - half loop sequences now count as a jump+1Lo+jump SEQ.
Originally Posted by Vash01
Correct ainouta, this season it would count as a 3T+1Lo+3S+2T -- a four jump (and illegal) sequence.
I'm curious to see if skaters like Joannie and Miki, who have used half loops as jump connections, go for more "traditional" combos (2A+3T) instead, since the base value of the 1Lo is so nominal now.
- Rep Power
1) Michelle Kwan
2) Yu-na Kim
3) Irina Slutskaya
4) Kristi Yamaguchi
5) Nancy Kerrigan
6) Tara Lipinski
7) Lu Chen
8) Shizuka Arakawa
9) Surya Bonaly
10) Sasha Cohen
Originally Posted by ainouta
So, we won't see any 3Toe/half Loop/3Sal anymore !
My top 5:
1. Yuna Kim - The most complete package the sport has seen so far.
2. Mao Asada - No. 2 to Yuna, but still clearly among the best ever.
3. Michelle Kwan - A deserving "legend" and heart of champion
4. Oksana Baiul - one of the most elegant skaters ever
5. Midori Ito - the best jumper of all time
I can't really justify any of my picks: I lack the expertise of many here. My picks are for those skaters (while amateur) I found captivating. The artistic mark was always more important to me. But jumps can be beautiful and thrilling as well. In no particular order the following women have consistently avoided my fast forward button:
Note: Though I bear them no ill will for leaving so soon I do wish Sarah and Tara would have remained in the sport to mature and perhaps even win a second gold. I love seeing Mirai mature now.