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Thread: Johnny in NYMag

  1. #81
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    Bemused I would have to respectfully disagree. While I think it's ridiculous for some of his fans to attack the author and complain about all of it (really some of his ubers can get downright frightening in their johnny-devotion), I do think there was reason to not be happy with it. The DN asked him how he felt about it and he responded he wasn't pleased with how it made him look and I was actually happy he felt that way. As someone who wants to see him succeed I was happy because it shows he's not just happy with "all publicity is good publicity" and does want to be taken seriously and for people to know he wants to work hard.

    There are several good, fair and balanced critiques of the article available online. It's silly for anybody to think it should be written as some sort of worshipping fan piece, however what bothered me most was that the author took a huge amount of liberty to supplant any objectivity with her own feelings and lack of fact-checking accuracy. It all adds up to a real condescending tone.

    I am impressed with the fact that the response (other than Johnny's ubers) to the article is mostly positive. Despite the author's tone most people had a good response to it and I think that is largely in part to the overwhelming amount of Johnny quotes which helped propel the article forward.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by portia View Post

    What I don't understand is how some ubers attack every critique/ opinion, however mild or justified, as personal affronts or worse, as indications of said critics' discriminatory bias.
    That's exactly what I was trying to say; you said it much better. One poster on Facebook described the opening paragraph of the article as proof that the writer was not ethical. Huh????

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bemused101 View Post
    That's exactly what I was trying to say; you said it much better. One poster on Facebook described the opening paragraph of the article as proof that the writer was not ethical. Huh????

    that's so dumb.

    I've watched every episode of Johnny's show and was impessed by the deep, ironic sense of humor he possessed. It also set him apart from other reality shows in that he was so introspective and analytical about everything. He comes off as really fun and playful and someone who can say the grandest, silliest things and then laugh and just charm you.

    I felt the author was trying to create some seedy, dark, illict picture of his life at the beginning of the article. I found it frustrating because it's not a feeling that comes through in any part of his show, seeing him at home, in interviews, etc.

    The "in which he's dumped some other pale liquor"... um... it's a bellini- peach and champagne. Everyone knows that drink. Johnny peers coyly, asks "is my car here?" shouts "cocaine!" and "Gurrrl!!" It got a little annoying after a while because it was clear what she was trying to do. Before I had even made it to the second page I was thinking: oh no, Johnny's a crude, oversexed, drug-addled, alcoholic who hangs out in seedy apartments with shady people.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny_sari View Post
    Bemused I would have to respectfully disagree.
    . . .It's silly for anybody to think it should be written as some sort of worshipping fan piece, however what bothered me most was that the author took a huge amount of liberty to supplant any objectivity with her own feelings and lack of fact-checking accuracy. It all adds up to a real condescending tone.
    Thank you for respectfully disagreeing, Sunny! There were too many factual booboos in the piece, I agree, but I guess I am in the minority for not finding the tone condescending. I think the author of the piece found Johnny charming--who wouldn't?! And even though Johnny's quotes are usually delightful--he'd probably give a good interview to a rock--she, as the writer, should get some credit for eliciting them and weaving them so well into her piece. She covered a lot of ground in the article, I think, and I liked her style.

    Do you think that it's possible that Johnny saw some truth in the article that he did not like to see reflected back at him? Or that perhaps he was taken aback that the writer wasn't fascinated/interested in his "posse," as he called his associates in the News quotes?

  5. #85
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    Do you think that it's possible that Johnny saw some truth in the article that he did not like to see reflected back at him? Or that perhaps he was taken aback that the writer wasn't fascinated/interested in his "posse," as he called his associates in the News quotes?[/QUOTE]


    Absolutely. Perhaps it made him realize that people may take him as not serious and going to parties all of the time, etc. That's why it made me a little happy that he did have that reaction because I hope it drives him to prove them wrong and follow through with serious things. I think this proves he isn't shallow and does want more than just being a famous person who is happy with any write-up about him.

    He does seem to get really protective of his friends. It's not the first time he's reacted strongly to negative implications of the people around him. He seems to take it worse than when people criticize HIM and harder than even they do.

  6. #86
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    I understand what you are saying, Sunny. I didn't think the article showed Johnny in the light you described (party animal, seedy apartment, etc.), but obviously others did, so I agree with you that it would make sense for Johnny (and his mom) to object to that.

    But I'm wondering if that was his initial gut reaction to the piece, or if his own opinion was shaped but what seemed to me to be a backlash against the article on his Facebook page. And some of the same folks posted "shame on you!" type comments on the NY Magazine page, wagging their shame fingers at the author. Maybe seeing some of this affected his opinion, just like hearing "you wuz robbed" over and over might be changing his opinions about his Olympic experience. People keep telling him he is a victim in one way or another; that can really drag you down.

    It's nice that he is protective of his friends--I hope they deserve it.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bemused101 View Post
    I understand what you are saying, Sunny. I didn't think the article showed Johnny in the light you described (party animal, seedy apartment, etc.), but obviously others did, so I agree with you that it would make sense for Johnny (and his mom) to object to that.

    But I'm wondering if that was his initial gut reaction to the piece, or if his own opinion was shaped but what seemed to me to be a backlash against the article on his Facebook page. And some of the same folks posted "shame on you!" type comments on the NY Magazine page, wagging their shame fingers at the author. Maybe seeing some of this affected his opinion, just like hearing "you wuz robbed" over and over might be changing his opinions about his Olympic experience. People keep telling him he is a victim in one way or another; that can really drag you down.

    It's nice that he is protective of his friends--I hope they deserve it.

    It's possible that others' reactions could have shaped his own. I guess there's no way for us to really know that. He seemed to be excited about the upcoming release of the article and tweeted that his "funny interview" was in it. Perhaps he remembered what he said, the intentions and humor he had for it, and maybe figured the author would reflect that. He could have been disappointed when he realized it didn't come off the way he meant it to.

    The Johnny as victim thing has been going on for a long time- way before any of this year's olympics or other controversies. His fans soon develop this strong, all-encompassing need to protect him. Where it comes from I have no idea and it happens in regards to things he doesn't even complain about himself. I don't know if people are responding to something in him- maybe it's because of the fact that he looks soft and delicate. Or maybe it's because he SEEMS vulnerable and very easily and deeply hurt despite the fact that he tries to act like he isn't. I admit there are times on his show when he seems he's so eager to show everyone how strong and thick-skinned he is when you really sense there's a deep sensitivity there he's desperate to protect.

  8. #88

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    Can't begrudge a fellow for wearing some killer Louboutin's...nice... :


    Johnny, please, tell me it isn't so......you....smoke???? Really? Please quit Now!

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny_sari View Post
    The Johnny as victim thing has been going on for a long time- way before any of this year's olympics or other controversies. His fans soon develop this strong, all-encompassing need to protect him. Where it comes from I have no idea and it happens in regards to things he doesn't even complain about himself. I don't know if people are responding to something in him- maybe it's because of the fact that he looks soft and delicate. Or maybe it's because he SEEMS vulnerable and very easily and deeply hurt despite the fact that he tries to act like he isn't. I admit there are times on his show when he seems he's so eager to show everyone how strong and thick-skinned he is when you really sense there's a deep sensitivity there he's desperate to protect.
    I think you are right on the money. And yes some fans are a little over the top and get a tad aggressive when they think he's been slighted in any way. Those are the true ubers, I guess, in which case I may have to turn in my uber suit because except for on here I don't write letters to mags or people or go nuts over the small stuff. But I have felt ever since Torino that he was really hurt by reaction to his loss of a medal. He was the USA's 3 time champion. He was so funny and quirky and everyone loved him until he lost and then he was a crappy athlete who was only really interested in fashion and a disgusting homo to boot. I mean really, who sends a figure skater death threats?! COI had to add on extra security! I don't know anyone who's skin is too thick to not be bothered by that. I personally think he's had a chip on his shoulder ever since which has fueled his defiance to authority and made him want to be even more "outrageous" than he perhaps would have been just to say in your face to the haters. And so his fans, who know all this about him, feel protective. JMO

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny_sari View Post
    There are several good, fair and balanced critiques of the article available online. It's silly for anybody to think it should be written as some sort of worshipping fan piece, however what bothered me most was that the author took a huge amount of liberty to supplant any objectivity with her own feelings
    Profiles are not objective.

    Perhaps this analogy will work. You can have your picture taken for your passport or driver's license and it looks like you. But you can have your picture taken by a good photographer and the picture will not just look like you, it will show something of you as a person because the photographer can see it and capture it for others to see as well. The same is true with a portrait; you can have your portrait painted so that it looks just like you, or you can have your portrait painted in an artistic way that not only looks like you but reveals something of your inner self as the painter sees it. What the artistic photo/painting is trying to capture is not just how you look, but who you are--which is always going to be subject to the artist's concept and understanding of you, because you are being seen through the artist's eyes.

    That's what profiles are supposed to do--they are supposed to be like artistic portraits, in which the point of the piece is not how things are objectively, but what kind of insights into the real person the writer can reveal. It's not about objectively reporting the who, what, when and why, but rather about using all of those things to frame and reveal the character at the center. The details themselves are only important if they are telling details--details that reveal character or express something about the subject. When she talks about Johnny's clothes, for example, she is not just telling you about it because they are there--she's telling you about it because she thinks it will say something to you about Johnny Weir.

    This doesn't mean that writers don't get it wrong, or that their interpretations of character aren't off, wrong or just plain nuts. The art is only as good as the artist. But one should never expect a profile piece to be objective, because a good one can't be, any more than we can objectively assess the article without our own concept of Johnny the person influencing our response. Profiles are about personalities and characters; there's always subjectivity.

    That said, I thought there was a really bitchy undertone to this whole thing; I am surprised that some Johnny fans liked it and I am not at all surprised that he didn't But that's the thing with profiles; subjective responses are to be expected.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    That said, I thought there was a really bitchy undertone to this whole thing; I am surprised that some Johnny fans liked it and I am not at all surprised that he didn't But that's the thing with profiles; subjective responses are to be expected.
    Funny you say that, I thought the tone of the article was kind of fair and I felt it would perfectly describe the enviroment around JW when he is private with his agent and friends, and fans/general public would not see his true self/behaviour.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    I mean really, who sends a figure skater death threats?! COI had to add on extra security!
    The majority of celebrities and athletes that have been thrown into the public eye get death threats. Mia Michaels gets death threats on SYTYCD, hockey players get death threats, David Beckham got them after the World Cup fiaso in (1998?). Heck even Kim Kardashian got them from Justin Bieber fans who thought she was dating him! So, all in all I don't think it is that unusual for a figure skater to have received them. It absolutely is stupid and unnecessary but not unusual.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    The majority of celebrities and athletes that have been thrown into the public eye get death threats. Mia Michaels gets death threats on SYTYCD, hockey players get death threats, David Beckham got them after the World Cup fiaso in (1998?). Heck even Kim Kardashian got them from Justin Bieber fans who thought she was dating him! So, all in all I don't think it is that unusual for a figure skater to have received them. It absolutely is stupid and unnecessary but not unusual.
    Actually it is fairly unusual. AFAIR, the only other skater we know who got death threats was Michelle Kwan...skaters are not on the same level of fame as Beckham or Kardashian, so they get a lot less positive and negative attention...

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by igniculus View Post
    Funny you say that, I thought the tone of the article was kind of fair and I felt it would perfectly describe the enviroment around JW when he is private with his agent and friends, and fans/general public would not see his true self/behaviour.
    I wasn't referring just to the first part where Johnny is with his friends, but to the article as a whole.

    OTOH, I get the general impression that the author the frustrations of some of Johnny's fans, too, so.....I can still see different readings there.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    The majority of celebrities and athletes that have been thrown into the public eye get death threats. Mia Michaels gets death threats on SYTYCD, hockey players get death threats, David Beckham got them after the World Cup fiaso in (1998?). Heck even Kim Kardashian got them from Justin Bieber fans who thought she was dating him! So, all in all I don't think it is that unusual for a figure skater to have received them. It absolutely is stupid and unnecessary but not unusual.
    I just thought that the figure skating world is not as high profile and seems to attract a different type of fan than hockey or soccer. Although the Olympics gets them noticed more. I do know Johnny had a stalker. People are nuts aren't they?!

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    I just thought that the figure skating world is not as high profile and seems to attract a different type of fan than hockey or soccer. Although the Olympics gets them noticed more. I do know Johnny had a stalker. People are nuts aren't they?!
    People are nuts. I think Johnny should start to be more careful too. As his profile increases and he continues to become more famous he needs to realize that some people are pretty unbalanced and may not be harmless. He's such a controversial person and with the issues in relation to gender, sexuality, peta, there are things that may attract some screwballs.

    He's really an open, all-accesss sort of person with his fans and while I think that's great some of his more ardent supporters also seem a little intense in their devotion to him. They wait for him in places they know he'll be and follow him around.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by psycho View Post
    Actually it is fairly unusual. AFAIR, the only other skater we know who got death threats was Michelle Kwan...skaters are not on the same level of fame as Beckham or Kardashian, so they get a lot less positive and negative attention...
    I would say that skaters are on the same level as Mia Michaels, hockey players, and other Olympians. I know there was one hockey goalie in the past couple years (can't remember who) who was not a superstar at all but just a quiet guy and he was receiving them. Didn't Shawn Johnson, the Olympic gymnast, get them to? I actually think death threats are far more common, we just only hear about certain ones.

    As for Kardashian, the fact that they were being sent most likely by teenage girls who have the "Bieber Fever" definietly creeps me out!

    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    People are nuts aren't they?!
    Very true statement!

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