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  1. #21
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    I'll speak in a more detail on the 2002-2010 performances, since I think the 1992-1998 skating belonged to a different time with different technical level and requirements.

    Totmianina/Marinin (2006) - Technically superb, almost ideal SP+LP. IMHO their Snowstorm is the second best SP ever skated at Olys. Amazing synch, speed, posture and edges, jump elements consistency - all this makes them stand out. Some would say they are unemotional - but I'll say - go and try to skate 2 clean programmes at Olys, and smile as wide as you can. I don't remember any other gold medallist doing that at Olys in pairs since Rodnina . Though I also find their LP not a romantic piece telling a story of Romeo and Juliet, and this is not my favourite programme that they ever created, but again - under all that pressure they managed to skate without visible effort and did not pretend what they were not in order to gain additional presentation points. BTW, I'm sure had they skated the same way they did in Torino, 4 years later in Vancouver - they wouldn't have had any competition as well.
    2 - Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze (2002) - Amazingly beautiful SP+LP. One slight mistake in LP + the best pairs SP ever. I will not spread further praise to them - all is well known
    3/4 - Savchenko/Szolkowi (2010) - Probably the most difficult and intricate programmes of all the mentioned pairs. Their potential was huge. But surprisingly - even with that bad execution - they were in their own league. I would have put them 1st after the SP in Vancouver.
    4/3 - Pang/Tong (2010) - The Chinese never had the skating skills of the 2 Russian pairs or the Germans, and their programmes though solid and aimed at highlighting their strengths lose in comparison with S/S, but they were cleaner in LP. I am not sure if they deserved an overall victory. Frankly speaking I don't see a pair like P/T in one row with Olympic champs as B/S, G/G, M/D... But they won the LP in 2010 fairly, and I would have put them 3rd after the SP, this would have guaranteed them the win, that I'm not so excited about, but at least that would be fair; and I also would have placed them 3rd overall in Turin.
    5 - Sale/Pelletier (2002) - Never they were my favourite couple, and I have a pretty formed attitude towards the whole 2nd GM story, but compairing their Olys performances with the rest in this time frame - I'd say they were not the worst. Both SP ans LP skated with confidence and no visible errors (I don't count their final pose fall as a big deal). Pretty simple, but confident and clean - not the worst Olympics scenario
    6 - Shen/Zhao (2010) - I don't like the programmes they skated this year. The same overemoting and O faces, no matter what the music is. I prefer "robotic" T/M who try to skate clean, expressing emotions with actual skating, posture, etc.. instead of learning how to emote with face properly. Overall, not the best performances in their career, with low speed, poor (to their own standard) ice coverage, etc. They had it much and much better! But considering their age and devotion to the ultimate goal - they surely deserve respect.
    7 - Shen/Zhao (2006) - My favourite programmes of S/Z! Very sad they did not skate them at 2006 worlds - I was hoping to see them again. Unfortunately - too many mistakes, but the programmes were gorgeous. I would have had them 2nd overall at that Games.
    8 - Shen/Zhao (2002) - A clean SP and a messy LP. Very ambitious and risky 4throw, but as a result - nothing close to their success a year after. BTW, I would have put them 2nd, slightly above Sale/Pelletier after the SP.
    9 - Zhang/Zhang (2006) - The SP that I really liked (Led Zep. and all..), and a disaster of a LP. No speed, no artistry.. I don't know how they managed to grab the silver actually, I would have put them no higher than 4-5 place overall.


    As for the 1992-1998 performances, Ill probably rank them as:
    Mishkutionok/Dmtriev - 1994
    Gordeeva/Grinkov - 1994
    Mishkutionok/Dmitriev - 1992
    Kazakova/Dmitriev - 1998
    Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze - 1998
    Bechke/Petrov - 1992
    Woetzel/Steuer - 1998
    Brasseur/Eisler - 1994
    Brasseur/Eisler - 1992

  2. #22
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    1. Mishkutenok/Dmitriev '92 - magic. No mistakes that I can recall
    2. Pang/Tong '10 - higher for me than M/D and G/G due to CoP and emotions
    3. Shen/Zhao '10 - same as above
    4. Mishkutenok/Dmitriev '94
    5. Gordeyeva/Grinkov '94 - would be higher but for small errors and less difficult elements.
    6. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze '02 - possibly higher but for step out on 2x by him
    7. Totmianina/Marinin '06 - technically proficient and strong, but kind of dull in comparison to those above them. Executing this LP under CoP for me puts them ahead of S/P
    8. Sale/Pelletier '02 - clean and emotional but lacked a je ne sais quoi that the top Russians exhibited
    9. Kazakova/Dmitriev '98 - Good job, but the only top Russian team that left me meh
    10. Bechke/Petrov '92 - see above
    11. Brasseur/Eisler '94 - good job, gutsy, but IIRC there were some elements that they scraped by on. I wouldn't object to moving them ahead of B/P
    12. Savchenko/Szolkowy '10 - clean performance by them would have put them in the league of the top Chinese and Russians
    13. Shen/Zhao '02 - OK. I honestly don't find them memorable in this timeframe, but I'm sure they were competent....just competent and not 'magical'
    14. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze '98 - fall and several odd moments in this performance kept them from winning '98 IMO, too bad because they really were beautiful just to watch
    15. Shen/Zhao '06 - hobbled by injury but maybe they should've been ahead of Z/Z in '06
    16. Zhang/Zhang '06 - the lack of finesse and that horrible fall
    17. Woetzel/Steuer '98 - somewhat rocky and easy elements. Weren't really smooth IIRC
    18. Brasseur/Eisler '92 - pretty disastrous IIRC
    Last edited by olympic; 08-17-2010 at 06:28 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    1. Mishkutenok/Dmitriev '92 - magic. No mistakes that I can recall
    2. Pang/Tong '10 - higher for me than M/D and G/G due to CoP and emotions
    3. Shen/Zhao '10 - same as above
    4. Mishkutenok/Dmitriev '94
    5. Gordeyeva/Grinkov '94 - would be higher but for small errors and less difficult elements.
    6. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze '02 - possibly higher but for step out on 2x by him
    7. Totmianina/Marinin '06 - technically proficient and strong, but kind of dull in comparison to those above them. Executing this LP under CoP for me puts them ahead of S/P
    8. Sale/Pelletier '02 - clean and emotional but lacked a je ne sais quoi that the top Russians exhibited
    9. Kazakova/Dmitriev '98 - Good job, but the only top Russian team that left me meh
    10. Bechke/Petrov '92 - see above
    11. Brasseur/Eisler '94 - good job, gutsy, but IIRC there were some elements that they scraped by on. I wouldn't object to moving them ahead of B/P
    12. Savchenko/Szolkowy '10 - clean performance by them would have put them in the league of the top Chinese and Russians
    13. Shen/Zhao '02 - OK. I honestly don't find them memorable in this timeframe, but I'm sure they were competent....just competent and not 'magical'
    14. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze '98 - fall and several odd moments in this performance kept them from winning '98 IMO, too bad because they really were beautiful just to watch
    15. Shen/Zhao '06 - hobbled by injury but maybe they should've been ahead of Z/Z in '06
    16. Zhang/Zhang '06 - the lack of finesse and that horrible fall
    17. Woetzel/Steuer '98 - somewhat rocky and easy elements. Weren't really smooth IIRC
    18. Brasseur/Eisler '92 - pretty disastrous IIRC


    1992 M/D - Natalia 2 footed once, and one of them singled the double axel. I think it was him, IIRC (I'm looking at notes I made the other day).

    1992 B/E - Yes, it was disastrous. It's funny to think they got the same result in '94 with a much better performances. Anyway, that was one of the most unclean Olympic performances in recent years.. I don't know about before 1992. Isabelle fell on one throw, two footed on another, and fell on the side-by-side 2As.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    1. Mishkutenok/Dmitriev '92 - magic. No mistakes that I can recall
    2. Pang/Tong '10 - higher for me than M/D and G/G due to CoP and emotions
    M&D actually weren't that clean in 1992 (at least they made more mistakes than B&S in 2002, for an example) - yet you put B&S in 6 place due to the step - out and M&D in first place ?


    Pang/Tong above M&D, G&G, B&S, T&M due to their dramatic O face expressions?
    Last edited by LLLLutz; 08-18-2010 at 11:52 AM.

  5. #25
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    Olympic is probably thinking P/T's program would have collected the most points under COP. It is really hard sometimes comparing these 6.0 programs with the COP ones.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Olympic is probably thinking P/T's program would have collected the most points under COP. It is really hard sometimes comparing these 6.0 programs with the COP ones.
    True that. It is hard for me to put these in order.

    I placed P/T high on my list out of respect for the dynamic jumps, throws and twists all done under CoP, and having the performance of their lives in an Olympic competition when some thought they were being written off. That carries a lot of weight.

    Comparing that to the phenomenal skating skills and connection of G/G, B/S ['02], M/D who were also all great technically, but didn't have the challenge of CoP made it difficult. I find myself reflexively throwing more weight behind the CoP performances.

    Quote Originally Posted by LLLLutz View Post
    M&D actually weren't that clean in 1992 (at least they made more mistakes than B&S in 2002, for an example) - yet you put B&S in 6 place due to the step - out and M&D in first place ?
    I'm at work and went by memory of M/D '92. I remember that performance as magical, bringing some to tears, and didn't remember mistakes, but will take your word for it.


    Pang/Tong above M&D, G&G, B&S, T&M due to their dramatic O face expressions?
    See above. Additionally, I also was never a fan of T/M. I found them dull-ish and mechanical, although somewhat improved by '06, so that weighed into my mind

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    True that. It is hard for me to put these in order.

    I placed P/T high on my list out of respect for the dynamic jumps, throws and twists all done under CoP, and having the performance of their lives in an Olympic competition when some thought they were being written off. That carries a lot of weight.

    Comparing that to the phenomenal skating skills and connection of G/G, B/S ['02], M/D who were also all great technically, but didn't have the challenge of CoP made it difficult. I find myself reflexively throwing more weight behind the CoP performances.
    If you put those performances in order according to CoP, Totmianina & Marinin would be the ultimative winners- they had the highest difficulty and the cleanest execution. As to them being dull and mechanical - I'm not a big fan of their approch to choreography either, but neither P&T, nor S&Z were that much better to put them higher - both teams used to rely way too much on facial over-dramatic acting, rather than expressing the music with their body.

    Besides, it's kind of weird not to take into account the quality of the skating - speed, flow, edging, carriage, unison, body lines, proper positions on elements - P&T are among the weakest Olympic medalists in those areas (S&Z are a bit better, but also very slow and with not that great basics)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLLLutz View Post
    If you put those performances in order according to CoP, Totmianina & Marinin would be the ultimative winners- they had the highest difficulty and the cleanest execution. As to them being dull and mechanical - I'm not a big fan of their approch to choreography either, but neither P&T, nor S&Z were that much better to put them higher - both teams used to rely way too much on facial over-dramatic acting, rather than expressing the music with their body.

    Besides, it's kind of weird not to take into account the quality of the skating - speed, flow, edging, carriage, unison, body lines, proper positions on elements - P&T are among the weakest Olympic medalists in those areas (S&Z are a bit better, but also very slow and with not that great basics)
    Well, it's all a matter of people's personal viewpoints, what they felt while watching, what they remember seeing, etc.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Well, it's all a matter of people's personal viewpoints, what they felt while watching, what they remember seeing, etc.
    So your rankings are based on the pure personal "like/didn't like" and have little to do with the actual technical difficulty and the quality of the skating of those pairs ? Ok, it explains everything.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLLLutz View Post
    So your rankings are based on the pure personal "like/didn't like" and have little to do with the actual technical difficulty and the quality of the skating of those pairs ? Ok, it explains everything.
    No they're not. My rankings are based on a combination of what the pairs put on the ice technically, along with the emotional factor. I couldn't devise another method of comparing CoP performances with 6.0 performances, so personal impressions mean a lot in my rankings.

    I see that I probably misrepresented what I meant in the previous post because I didn't get a chance to fully explain [I'm at work]. I added the 'etc.' but that apparently didn't clear things up.

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