FSU Judging Game

[chipso1]

Was that a poll or an actual COP analysis from people who know it well? I loved both programs, but would have to tip it to Kadavy based on stronger spins and transitions and better component scores.

It was a judging game that AussieWilly ran.

[Aussie Willy]

Was that a poll or an actual COP analysis from people who know it well? I loved both programs, but would have to tip it to Kadavy based on stronger spins and transitions and better component scores.

Yes it was a judging game that I put together. People got to play judge. They submitted their marks and then the data was entered into the program ISUCalc that is used to run the judging system (done manually). Interesting thing was that people learnt how hard it is to be a judge.

Glad that Jenna is doing the next one. I won't have time to do it but I will certainly be interested to see the results.

[Lainerb]

How would issues such as Bonaly being one revolution short on her flying spin come into play under COP? Would it be reflected as having no value or would we apply -GOE?

[Jenna]

How would issues such as Bonaly being one revolution short on her flying spin come into play under COP? Would it be reflected as having no value or would we apply -GOE?

Well, I believe the minimum under COP is 3 revolutions isn't it? It would be called a FSSp1.

[Aussie Willy]

How would issues such as Bonaly being one revolution short on her flying spin come into play under COP? Would it be reflected as having no value or would we apply -GOE?

Judges would need to consider what GOE they would give for a underrotated spin. If it is less revolutions than required, you could consider giving it -1 for each lack of rotation.

If the Technical Panel consider that there are not enough revolutions for a level, they would then call it as a spin with no level. But it is not up to the judges to decide that and the judges still have to apply a GOE (which would most likely be -3). The system will recognise that they element has been given no level and will make sure it is a non-valid element.

[shady82]

May I represent Iceland? If Iceland isn't in the ISU, then Norway..

[Quintuple]

I'd like to judge! I think I've played 2 or 3 of these games here on FSU. I'll be Cyprus! CYP!

[Tony Wheeler]

If there is room, I'd love to play as well. I guess I'd represent CZE.

[Lainerb]

Just to remind, a -3 must be given to an element that does not meet the requirements: a triple-double or triple-triple combination, a triple jump out of steps, a double axel, a layback spin, a flying spin in one position, a step sequence, and a change foot combination spin. Per 2010-11 rules, Spirals will not be called but feel free to include them into the transitions mark.

I guess I am still uncertain about this sort of situation. Under the 1998 rules a double+double still met the critera for the two jump combination, but it resulted in a much reduced base value. I understand that under the current system a skater can't do double+double, but since this was during 1998 shouldn't we allow the combo without the mandatory -GOE?

[gkelly]

I guess I am still uncertain about this sort of situation. Under the 1998 rules a double+double still met the critera for the two jump combination, but it resulted in a much reduced base value. I understand that under the current system a skater can't do double+double, but since this was during 1998 shouldn't we allow the combo without the mandatory -GOE?

I do not believe that double-double combination was still permitted in 1998.

What was still permitted was a double as the solo jump out of steps. So should that be judged as a valid element, not necessarily -3 GOE as it would be by today's rules?

[Lainerb]

I remember Scott(though he may not be the most trusted source ever) mentioning Irina's double+double during the warm-up for the LP and saying that although it was valued less that it still met the required element and that was the reason she was still in contention for a medal.

[Jenna]

Judges:
1- Lainerb (CHN)
2- smarts1 (RUS)
3- beepbeep (BRA)
4- chipso1 (USA)
5- doh (FRA)
6- shady82 (ISL)
7- Allen (NZL)
8- Quintuple (CYP)
9- Tony Wheeler (CZE)

These are the judges for the game! Feel free to start judging now if you would like. Just PM me your GOEs and PCS for each skater when you are done. There are 12 programs.

Regarding, the requirements, I am not 100% sure whether or not the double-double was allowed. Therefore, it will be called as 2Lz-2T and it will not be an illegal element, so it is not mandatory to give it a -3 GOE, unless, of course, you feel it is merited. Also, regarding a double jump out of steps. I believe we ran into this problem with the 1988 judging game. It is not necessary to assign -3 GOE. Those were the requirements of the time, and I won't penalize skaters who followed the requirements.

Here are the programs again:

Kwan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH6z-gwiSRc

Lipinski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBt7TGh3HWM

Butyrskaya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7RkX...eature=related

Chen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxER4UaFxNA

Slutskaya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJKs2kaJlyc

Bonaly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5G8rQl7L0g

Gusmeroli: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0DxW_qe7Ps

Kulovana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IJmcZcGvrk

Sebestyen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhqrbqJW7lM

Lautowa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbR-cl23MTY

Human: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEueIqCn-zM

Andrade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umNBf3kC_RY

Here are some judging guidelines:

PCS Explanations: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

GOE Guidelines: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1427

Happy Judging!

[Quintuple]

Wait, so do we list the elements ourselves without the technical specialist?

i.e.

3toe: +1
1st spin: 0
Step sequence: +1

SS: 6.5
TR: 6.0

etc.?

[Jenna]

Wait, so do we list the elements ourselves without the technical specialist?

i.e.

3toe: +1
1st spin: 0
Step sequence: +1

SS: 6.5
TR: 6.0

etc.?

You can just send the GOEs to me in the order of the elements, such as :0, -1, +1, -2...etc. You can send the components exactly as you have it there.

[Jenna]

Our Panel of Officials in Documented Form:

http://www.4shared.com/document/Lt_2...SP_Judges.html

Skating Order:

http://www.4shared.com/document/m3ES...gOrderWit.html

[Quintuple]

Actually, that's good. I just remembered that real judges give GOE without knowing necessarily how the technical caller will call elements. I think I was spoiled by the NBC Olympic game listing out the elements ... which of course is interesting, as I wonder if they updated popped/changed elements and their point values. I remember thinking that some of the math was coming out funky.

[Jenna]

Yes, gkelly and I are in the process of reviewing elements. We are almost finished. I have only received one judge's marks. Keep on sending them in!

[chipso1]

I should have my marks to you by this weekend, Jenna.

[Jenna]

I should have my marks to you by this weekend, Jenna.

Great!

[Tony Wheeler]

The starting order you have listed is the final short program results rather than the actual start lists