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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Would it just be better to leave a little more room, take a few less passengers, don't charge for petty incidentals, and just raise the fares a little?
    I'm sure that would go down very well with the airlines shareholders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Would it just be better to leave a little more room, take a few less passengers, don't charge for petty incidentals, and just raise the fares a little?
    We have that already--it's called first class.

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    Not to mention highly sophisticated pricing and demand models, run by the finance types, for all classes of service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk8NYC View Post
    I've done "early boarding" a few times and watched as jerks with two bags get on the plane, open the forward compartments (even dumping out the pillows/blankets to make room), shove their stuff in and waltz down the aisle to the back of the most-empty plane. They're not concerned - they're selfish.
    In the share-your-last-straw stories submitted to the NY Times, somebody wrote about a friend who had watched a man store two bags in the overhead before going to his assigned seat in the back of the plane:
    As the plane filled with passengers, the overheads filled up too. My friend helped a woman-turned out ot be his seatmate-to stow her bag in the overhead above them. To make room he had to first remove the bag stowed by the earlier passenger in the rear. My friend took that bag up to front and checked it with a flight attendant.

    After the flight took off, the flight attendant came to my friend saying "Thanks for checking your bag, sir. Here's your claim ticket." to which he replied, "Oh, that was not my bag. It belongs to a guy in the back of the plane!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Oh, I didn't mean they are concerned in a good way. I meant they are only concerned with their own needs and that they are selfish.
    Oh, point taken. You're right and that's exactly what another person said - they have a "Me first" attitude. But it only causes "congestion" because the pushy people in front who were forced to put their bags in the back block the aisle anyway, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moto Guzzi View Post
    In the share-your-last-straw stories submitted to the NY Times, somebody wrote about a friend who had watched a man store two bags in the overhead before going to his assigned seat in the back of the plane:
    It's nice to know there are people who stand up for what's right and take action. Unfortunately, I always get caught trying to outfox people. The guy in the back of the plane would have tackled me as I was handing over his bag to the attendant. No wonder I lead such an honest life.

    I always try to keep my carryon under the seat, but on my last flight, I brought back two pairs of skates from Klingbeils, so one bag went into the overhead. At the end of the flight, some lady tried to take my PSA skate bag, mistaking it for her own. Boy, was she surprised at the weight!

    Well, the man himself is having some fun....

    http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/...45469768806134
    He's certainly making the PR rounds. Someone claimed (on that page) that they've started a defense fund, but I think that's bogus. The facebook page itself isn't his, it was started by someone else.
    Last edited by FigureSpins; 08-11-2010 at 06:33 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I'm sure that would go down very well with the airlines shareholders.
    If they still make the sama amount of money who cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    We have that already--it's called first class.
    Well, that's not quite the same. I looked at a United flight, round trip from Newark, NJ to Venice, Italy (figured I'd make it interesting). Economy is $980.00, first class is $18,257.20. I was thinking make the flights 1 or 2 hundred more not a lot of thousands more.

    I was only in first class once. My daughter and I were bumped up because the flight was over booked. Husband and son had to stay in economy. It was very nice, but I cannot fathom spending that much more for a flight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Well, that's not quite the same...I was thinking make the flights 1 or 2 hundred more not a lot of thousands more.
    It's exactly what you proposed, so I would say it is the same. The issue is when you do what your propose, the prices go up quite a bit.

    For those who want a little of what you described, but not on the level of first class, they have business class. And yet, people overwhelmingly prefer to fly coach because it's significantly cheaper and most people would rather be cramped for a few hours than pay a few hundred extra dollars. That's why the coach section of the plane is always the biggest--that's where consumer demand is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Well, that's not quite the same. I looked at a United flight, round trip from Newark, NJ to Venice, Italy (figured I'd make it interesting). Economy is $980.00, first class is $18,257.20. I was thinking make the flights 1 or 2 hundred more not a lot of thousands more.
    Well, that's the rub, innit? Airlines are losing money hand over fist. The nickel and diming they're doing is to keep flights going. I can only imagine that the price disparity between economy and first class will widen.

    I'm just as hacked off as the next person at how awful air travel has become - but I think it's naive to think that airlines will opt for shuttling fewer people in better comfort with only a nominal price increase per passenger.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    It's exactly what you proposed, so I would say it is the same. The issue is when you do what your propose, the prices go up quite a bit.

    For those who want a little of what you described, but not on the level of first class, they have business class.
    I did not suggest that the seats be like first class. I said they should give a little more leg room. They could accomplish that by removing 2 or 3 rows. That would translate to 14 - 27 seats per flight, depending on the plan seating configuration. Just divide that up. That wouldn't be anywhere near what first or business class is. Or, rip out the galleys, they don't use them for much of anything anyway. Make the leg room in coach what it used to be, even 8 years ago.

    And yet, people overwhelmingly prefer to fly coach because it's significantly cheaper and most people would rather be cramped for a few hours than pay a few hundred extra dollars. That's why the coach section of the plane is always the biggest--that's where consumer demand is.
    They overwhelmingly prefer it because it is not a moderate increase. And some people are more cramped than others. How tall are you? Are your knees up around your ears when you're on a plane? I fly coach because i can't afford first or business. I have no problem paying an extra $100 for the seats with extra leg room, on a long flight, but try and get one.

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    I was actually thinking about this last night.

    Airlines don't make their money from first class OR cheap coach fares. They make it from business travel. Last minute travel that, three days before the big meeting, costs the company several hundreds, but not thousands, of dollars more than the same flight I booked three months ago for my vacation. Ce La Vie -- or so it was when I was booking travel for a large corporation.

    BUT -- say there was an airline, with not as many planes in the air and maybe not as many choices of destination -- but one that valued "quality over quantity" (and advertised as such -- maybe "return to the friendly skies...") -- where-in all fares were $300-$400 more than the going super saver rate on other airlines. Businesses would take their business there...and even I would seriously consider it.

    It's almost like the difference between sailing on Carnival, Celebrity, or Cunard. I'm not shelling out for Cunard...but I''' pay a little extra for NOT sailing on Carnival....

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I did not suggest that the seats be like first class. I said they should give a little more leg room. They could accomplish that by removing 2 or 3 rows. That would translate to 14 - 27 seats per flight, depending on the plan seating configuration. Just divide that up. That wouldn't be anywhere near what first or business class is. Or, rip out the galleys, they don't use them for much of anything anyway. Make the leg room in coach what it used to be, even 8 years ago.
    Ironically, you're describing Jet Blue. Their standard seat pitch is one of the highest in the industry (I think it's 33" in big jets) and all of their flights have several rows with even more legroom (38"), available for purchase for an extra fee each way ($10 to $30, depending on flight length). They also have only a single class of service.

    I once flew from coast to coast on Jet Blue, with my return trip on the red eye. I was floored that the flight was full, yet I had my row completely to myself because apparently no one wanted to pay an extra $30 for more leg room. So I was the only one in my seat group, and was able to flip up the arm rests and lie down. Sweet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    I was on the red eye. I was floored that the flight was full, yet I had my row completely to myself because apparently no one wanted to pay an extra $30 for more leg room.
    People like to travel cheaply.

    Also, if one sits in the first row where there are no seats in front of you, the leg room there is substantially greater. And I don't believe you have to pay for that.

    But like you said, people don't typically like to pay more for a few hours of travel. So forcing people to pay more by making every seat larger and adding amenities (which typically means more food and beverage and therefore more galleys and such) isn't much of a winner. If someone wants to pay more for that, there are options already to accommodate that (like business and first class). But very often those sections are underbooked because people would rather save the money.

  13. #73
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    I've never flown JetBlue - but I would pay $30 for more legroom on a coast-to-coast flight, if the base fare was comparable to other airlines. But $100 more for the amenities cruisin described? No.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    People like to travel cheaply.
    The round trip ticket was under $300 (coast to coast), so an extra $30 didn't seem like that much considering the length of the flight.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    People like to travel cheaply.

    Also, if one sits in the first row where there are no seats in front of you, the leg room there is substantially greater. And I don't believe you have to pay for that.
    With most major airlines, you do have to pay more now. there are certain rows of seats that have more leg room due to the plane's configuration. those seats are more money. But, they are very hard to get, because there are so few of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    I've never flown JetBlue - but I would pay $30 for more legroom on a coast-to-coast flight, if the base fare was comparable to other airlines. But $100 more for the amenities cruisin described? No.
    Ah, but are you 5' 10" with very long legs? And have you had little kids in front of you on a 6/7 hour flight slamming the seat back into your knees constantly? With parents who refuse to stop them? I thought, on the last long flight I was on, I would not be able to walk afterward. $100 on a long flight is worth it for me. I don't eat their food, I don't really need their beverages. Get rid of that stuff and make more room for tall people. People complain when they have to sit next to a very overweight person. Imagine feeling like a pretzel the whole flight .

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Ah, but are you 5' 10" with very long legs?
    As a matter of fact, I am exactly 5'10" with very long legs

    And have you had little kids in front of you on a 6/7 hour flight slamming the seat back into your knees constantly? With parents who refuse to stop them?
    Yup. I imagine most people who've flown on planes have experienced that, and more.

    But until very recently I lived very close to hand-to-mouth, and economics drive most of my travel decisions. As I said, $30 for extra leg room? Sure, I can swing that now (although a year or two ago, I probably wouldn't consider it). $100 extra? Not worth it.
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    Not too long ago, I had the option to upgrade to first class for $100. This was a 6 hour return flight, and my outbound flight had been crowded in miserable. Also, the real cost was only like $80 because first class didn't need to pay to check bags (and I decided not to get anything to eat at the airport, since I knew I'd be well fed on the plane, so that saved some additional $$). So I took the upgrade (and paid for it myself, the rest of the trip was paid for by work). I'm afraid I may now be addicted to first class.

    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    Ironically, you're describing Jet Blue. Their standard seat pitch is one of the highest in the industry (I think it's 33" in big jets) and all of their flights have several rows with even more legroom (38"), available for purchase for an extra fee each way ($10 to $30, depending on flight length). They also have only a single class of service.
    I think United has the same thing now. At least one of my recent flights had the same option. After the plane took off, some passengers in the "no leg room" seats tried to move up to the "extra leg room" seats but were stopped by the flight attendants. They were given the option of moving to the "extra leg room" seats - but they'd have to pay.
    Creating drama!

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    As a matter of fact, I am exactly 5'10" with very long legs
    Okay, well, do you have... I give up!

    Yup. I imagine most people who've flown on planes have experienced that, and more.

    But until very recently I lived very close to hand-to-mouth, and economics drive most of my travel decisions. As I said, $30 for extra leg room? Sure, I can swing that now (although a year or two ago, I probably wouldn't consider it). $100 extra? Not worth it.
    Honestly, whether I have extra money or not, I don't like to pay more than I have to. And I wouldn't even pay it for a east coast west coast flight. But, for international flights, it's worth it. I lucked out one time, where there were seats with extra leg room available, what a difference. I could sleep!. I don't travel much so we're not talking about spending the extra money very often.
    What really irks me is when they give the extra leg room seats to families with little kids. Save them for the tall people who are willing to pay for them. I think there should be a height criteria for getting those seats!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffisjeff View Post
    Not too long ago, I had the option to upgrade to first class for $100. This was a 6 hour return flight, and my outbound flight had been crowded in miserable. Also, the real cost was only like $80 because first class didn't need to pay to check bags (and I decided not to get anything to eat at the airport, since I knew I'd be well fed on the plane, so that saved some additional $$). So I took the upgrade (and paid for it myself, the rest of the trip was paid for by work). I'm afraid I may now be addicted to first class.
    That's pretty reasonable for the upgrade. If you elected to upgrade on a flight were they were not overbooked it would cost you $$$$$$$$$$$$!

    I think United has the same thing now. At least one of my recent flights had the same option. After the plane took off, some passengers in the "no leg room" seats tried to move up to the "extra leg room" seats but were stopped by the flight attendants. They were given the option of moving to the "extra leg room" seats - but they'd have to pay.
    I don't know if every airport or airline is the same. I think when we have tried to do it, we have done it on line. I think that day of, you can go on line and try to change your seats to the legroom ones. If you wait till you get to the airport or on the plane, not much chance there will be any left. Also, if you are traveling with someone, you might not be able to sit with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron W View Post
    I have empathy for the flight attendant as well. I've done plenty of flying lately and I always feel bad for them with all of the sh*t they have to put up with from bitchy passengers. Too many passengers take out their airline frustrations on flight attendants who almost always have nothing to do with the airline rules, delays, etc. I always try to be extra nice to the flight attendants on my flights because it's almost certain there are several jackasses on the flight who deserve to be shoved out the door and allowed to plummet to their deaths. I hope the lady that ignored this man's instructions and cursed him out is also taken to court & fined heavily.
    Flight attendants make lousy salaries too (I've heard of some who only make $18,000/year) given all the crap they put up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    I imagine they get a very different sort of grief just for being male flight attendants.
    EXACTLY! I'm not surprised at all that this guy was pushed to his breaking point.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Okay, well, do you have... I give up!


    But, for international flights, it's worth it.
    I definitely see your point about that - I'm trying to plan my first transcontinental trip (other than the one I took as a teenager which I barely remember), and the shorter flights are a higher priority over price. I will gladly pay a hundred bucks more for a 7-8 hour flight than for a 12-15 hour flight to the same place!

    I once got bumped to 1st class when I was in college for volunteering to give up my seat when it wasn't needed. It was amazing. I told my mom afterwards that I was going to start flying first class...and then she told me how much more it would cost Needless to say, I haven't flown first class since
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