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  1. #1
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    No more D's in school

    Schools in Mount Olive, N.J., are getting rid of D's in the fall. The grade scale will be A, B, C, or F.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/ed...s.html?_r=1&hp

    The argument for this change is that students who would have just wanted to get by with D's will now try harder to at least get C's so they won't fail.

    Who wants to pay for “D”-quality plumbing? Fly the skies with a “D”-rated pilot? Settle for a “D” restaurant?
    Well, I wouldn't want to pay for "C"-quality plumbing, pilot or restaurant either. So get rid of C's also and then school will only unlease A's and B's (or F's) students into the real world .

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Schools in Mount Olive, N.J., are getting rid of D's in the fall. The grade scale will be A, B, C, or F.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/ed...s.html?_r=1&hp

    The argument for this change is that students who would have just wanted to get by with D's will now try harder to at least get C's so they won't fail.

    Well, I wouldn't want to pay for "C"-quality plumbing, pilot or restaurant either. So get rid of C's also and then school will only unlease A's and B's (or F's) students into the real world .
    Very strange. C's used to be average, B's good, A's excellent, D's below average and F's fail. I find it strange to go from average straight to fail. Is B supposed to be average now? To never give a C is to always have above average work given in, which I find very unlikely. Average plumbing I would definitely pay for, below average would depend on why it was considered below average, can they do the work and it's not presented well, the products they use are not a good quality, or can't they do the actual work?

    Can the pilot fly the plane, but he just doesn't dress well and has a vulgar mouth, or can't he fly the plane? If he can fly the plane but dresses shoddily and has a vulgar mouth so got a D, I'd pay less and go for the D rather than pay for a well dressed, sweet talking A who flies the plane the same way that the poorly dressed pilot. Or I'd go for a C if he's just okay dressed and just speaks okay. I'd rather pay for the flying abilities, than go for the A that dresses well, has great manners etc. It all depends on if they can get the job done.

    At school, you're rarely graded on just one thing at a time, especially in language based subjects. Essays are graded on content, format, referencing etc. Miss the ball on one of those and you can get a D (below average) but maybe your content is excellent, so you shouldn't fail.

    Beijing grades restaurants. The only ones that have A's are those in the posh hotels that cost a fortune, some nice but not too upmarket have B's, most of them have C's. The grotty ones have D's. They all have edible food that complies with regulations, or they'd be shut down (which would be like an F). Some days, I'll eat from an A, some days I'd rather spend less and go the grotty but still edible D.

    It bugs me when people equate academic learning to "real life". In real life, most occupations allow for researching to find answers, rather than needing to remember that thing *now* like is required in exams. My doctor even looked up something one a medical site while I was in her office the other day. In real life, people with D's at school often get by just fine, and those with C's do too. Even at university, there was a saying "C's'get degrees" - you all get the same piece of paper in the end. Schools should be just as much about the experience, and learning to get along with people as about the grade, especially with a lot of subjects being compulsory. Those D's keep people in school, F's probably won't. Some people need a lot of below average/D work before something clicks.

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    I think it's ridiculous. They are claiming that kids get "Ds" when they should fail, but the teacher is pushing them through, to get them out of school. Why should a kid, who is below average, but not failing, fail? Will "C" now be the new below average? Will kids that are being pushed through just get "Cs" now? Will more "Bs" be given wrongly? In order to have a middle/average, there should be an odd number of grades. Average, and two steps up for excellence, and two steps down for failure. Consistent "D" students are probably not flying planes, plumbing contractors, or doctors. What about kids who get "Cs" & "Ds" in high school, because of maturity, but turn themselves around in college and become very successful?

    There is another town in NJ (forget which), which has recently made news because they decided to change the "F" = failing grade to an "E" = failing. they determined that "Fs" make the kids feel bad. Yeah, and changing the letter will make them feel good? They are also claiming this as a brilliant "new" idea. The school system I grew up in used "E" = failing in high school. For some reason they thought "A", "B", "C", "D", "E" made more sense than skipping over the "E" for "F". We all knew what "E" was and those who got one, did not feel "better".

    The whole thing is just idiotic.
    Last edited by cruisin; 08-08-2010 at 05:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    There is another town in NJ (forget which), which has recently made news because they decided to change the "F" = failing grade to an "E" = failing.
    My school system in NJ used this 30+ years ago.

    For some reason they thought "A", "B", "C", "D", "E" made more sense than skipping over the "E" for "F".
    As far as I knew, this was the reason.

    Or there may have been an F grade as well, but it was only given in specific circumstances.

    We knew that E was failing. There wasn't any pretense that it was better than failing.

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    Well, I'd certainly go for a 'D' airline stewardess, if you know what I mean.

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    Accustomed to being marked out of 20 (in France) or 100 (in England), I struggle with the concept of fitting pupils' work into a mere 5 categories to start with....

    Sounds to me like pupils who used to be scraping Ds are now going to be getting Cs


    Having said that, in many French primary schools they're doing away with marks altogether. Not sure if it's a good or a bad thing - maybe for some, but I just can't imagine how boring primary school would have been without the little satisfaction of being to obtain good marks! It was bad enough as it was.
    Last edited by millyskate; 08-08-2010 at 05:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jot the Dot Dot View Post
    Well, I'd certainly go for a 'D' airline stewardess, if you know what I mean.
    As in 34D?


    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    My school system in NJ used this 30+ years ago.
    Yes, I was in HS almost 40 years ago. So, this is hardly a new thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    Accustomed to being marked out of 20 (in France) or 100 (in England), I struggle with the concept of fitting pupils' work into a mere 5 categories to start with....

    Sounds to me like pupils who used to be scraping Ds are now going to be getting Cs


    Having said that, in many French primary schools they're doing away with marks altogether. Not sure if it's a good or a bad thing - maybe for some, but I just can't imagine how boring primary school would have been without the little satisfaction of being to obtain good marks! It was bad enough as it was.
    Milly, typically tests, papers, projects, homework are graded on a 100 point system. Then they break the points down into 5 grades. 93-100=A, 86-92=B,
    79-85=C, 72-78=D, and anything below 72 is an F. The breakdowns are not always done the way I show above, sometimes it's based on 10 (90-100=A, 80-90=B, and so on). But that is how it works. So, essentially if you score less that 72% correct, you fail in some schools, hardly a middle point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Milly, typically tests, papers, projects, homework are graded on a 100 point system. Then they break the points down into 5 grades. 93-100=A, 86-92=B,
    79-85=C, 72-78=D, and anything below 72 is an F. The breakdowns are not always done the way I show above, sometimes it's based on 10 (90-100=A, 80-90=B, and so on). But that is how it works. So, essentially if you score less that 72% correct, you fail in some schools, hardly a middle point.
    Oh ok, that makes sense

    Although failing with 72% doesn't really

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    Most schools I know go by the 10-point system. So the highest possible passing is a 60 (D-) and from 59 down you get an F or a E.

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    We've been A/B/C+/C/C- for a long time now. I don't use F because it's difficult to give... we first have to go through I paperwork long before a formal report, and then the I can eventually be converted to an F. Though it's frowned upon by admin. I did give one I this year, and counsellors and the principal kept the kid in with them at lunch until enough work was done.

    I usually just keep my kids in until I get enough work that can get them 50%/C-. I really don't like what many teachers do, which is just give them the C- so that they don't have to do the paperwork.

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    A quick clarification... when I said I don't use F, I meant that I don't include it when I list off grades... because it's just not seen very often. I DO use it as a last resort as a teacher, but they're rare and very difficult to give.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    Most schools I know go by the 10-point system. So the highest possible passing is a 60 (D-) and from 59 down you get an F or a E.
    I think it's a state or district thing. When I grew up in NJ it was as I said above. We still live in NJ, but a different county, and it's also what I put above in the schools my kids went to. I think in college it was based in 10.

    Milly, I agree 71% should not be a failing grade.

    What I wonder is in Mount Olive (which is not that far from where I live, and is in the same county), will dropping the D mean anything below 70-78 is failing? Or will they make the categories bigger? I mean, if their numerical range is the same as ours, a 78 would then be failing

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    In my schools, the 100 pt was:
    90-100 A
    80-89 - B
    70-79 - C
    60-69 or 65 -69 D
    59 or 64 and lower F
    +/- is the bottom 2 or 3 points in each score - 91 = A-

    In Elementary school we had:
    E - Excellent
    G - Good
    F - Fair
    U - Unsatisfactory
    So that is pretty much the same as A,B,C & F

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    High schools I taught in had this scale:

    93-100=A
    86-92=B
    78-85=C
    70-77=D
    69 and below failing (F).

    As I understand the article, this school was on the ten point scale (90-100 for an A and so on) which puts failing all the way down to 59%. They are just leaving the scale wide for A, B, and C and making 69 and below failing which is the scale at many high schools. Not such a big deal.

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    My High School went

    100-86 A
    85-73 B
    72-66 C+
    65-60 C
    59-50 C-
    49 and below F

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KikiSashaFan View Post
    My High School went

    100-86 A
    85-73 B
    72-66 C+
    65-60 C
    59-50 C-
    49 and below F
    Well, I have to say that scale would have made my life easier--far fewer parents whining because their kids didn't get A's or B's!!

  18. #18

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    There are some schools - post-secondary ones at that - who don't give Fs. For the courses that give grades (as opposed to credit/no credit courses), the lower grades (below C- or D) are variations on NC (no credit). The reason being that it would hurt the poor students' self-esteem too much to get a big bad F WHICH MEANS FAIL
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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    I went to a pretentious, wannabe-British, prep school where we didn't have grades, we had "forms" and, up until the colleges demanded a coherent grading system, had

    HH (Highest Honors)
    H (Honors)
    HP (High Pass)
    P (Pass)
    F

  20. #20
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    This thread reminds me of someting the Portuguese education minister said a few weeks ago. She said that she wanted to end with disapprovals, meaning that students wouldn't have to repeat a school year, even if they don't have good grades. The students would receive extra classes to help them. I find this very stupid. I felt like throwing something at the television when she said that!


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