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  1. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by leesaleesa View Post
    Huh. Here I always thought Kwan v Slutskaya was one of the great rivalries. On any given night, either could of won. I always thought they were equally good in their own way.
    ITA! The fact that they tried to keep a comparatively friendly, respectful relationship made it bettter (IMO) because it made it easier to focus on their skating, rather than their personalities.

  2. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Once again, you're trying to rewrite history.

    The deal was to keep B&K from medalling at all by placing them 5th in the CD.
    .
    It may have been alleged by some that B&K were held down in the CD, but the deal for which Balkov and Senft were suspended was to put B&K on the podium. Balkov, was typically very favorable in his marking of B&K (he supported them in 2002 over FP&M) and wasn't one of the judges that was accused of being in the block trying to hold them down.

  3. #223

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    Balkov did then and continues to do whatever Piseev tells him to do.

  4. #224
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    Bourne & Kraatz did not deserve a medal at the 98 Olympics anyway. They repeated a mistake on every pattern on the same step of their Golden Waltz and their OD was terrible and only placed 4th due to their reputation.

  5. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    The deal was to keep B&K from medalling at all by placing them 5th in the CD. Senft wasn't back judging at the Olympics because Dave Dore refused to send her to another international event after her suspension.
    I believe there was footage of Senft talking to Balkov on the phone? It seemed she was involved in the deal. This was why she was suspended, wasn't it?

    And why was she involved if the deal was to keep B&K from medalling?

    I didn't follow the closely and didn't understood why Senft was suspended if it was she who exposed the matter? And if she was involved in wrongdoing, wasn't it unwise for her to do so?

  6. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I thought they certainly deserved the title in 03 but don't know if the program would stand up against some of the other GM programs of the period. B&K at their best could not have beaten A&P or G&P at their best. . .

    Still, I do watch the program again from time to time and love it.

    But Riverdance is still my favourite. I don't care that it didn't win a medal or wasn't as difficult as other programs.

    Sometimes your favourite programs isn't a winning one or one that even medals.
    That is certainly true as of late. After V&M, the Kerr's are my fave ice dance team!!
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  7. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I believe there was footage of Senft talking to Balkov on the phone? It seemed she was involved in the deal. This was why she was suspended, wasn't it?

    And why was she involved if the deal was to keep B&K from medalling?

    I didn't follow the closely and didn't understood why Senft was suspended if it was she who exposed the matter? And if she was involved in wrongdoing, wasn't it unwise for her to do so?
    The problem was, Senft did everything on that tape I believe? On the tape specific placings were discussed and she did those placements didn't she? I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that is the other main reason why she got suspended.

    IMHO, the placements were ridiculous given the reality of what occured on the ice. I recall her placements were out of line...even with the
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  8. #228
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    I liked Jean Senft. I missed her judging tutorials she used to do on CBC. I think she got a raw deal in the whole taped conversation thing. I do believe she was trying to do got and got made an example of for it. I dont think she is perfect or devoid of bias by any means but I do think on the whole she was a good judge.

    The thing is I do think there was bloc judging in Nagano just based on the ordinal alignments which make it fairly obvious. However if Bourne & Kraatz really did lose the bronze by bloc judging, they IMO would have only received it in the first place due to protocal judging. So ultimately by whatever means the placements worked out fairly correct, atleast as far as the medals went. I believe the biggest victims of the bloc judging were probably a team like Punsalen & Swallow who I generally did not care for but hit their peak in 98, or even Drobiazko & Vanagas, or even a rusty Moniotte & Lavanchy who were clearly not at their best but still probably got hammered extra hard as they were given a message by their federation to retire (which they probably were doing anyway).

  9. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Bourne & Kraatz did not deserve a medal at the 98 Olympics anyway. They repeated a mistake on every pattern on the same step of their Golden Waltz and their OD was terrible and only placed 4th due to their reputation.
    Except that they did those same steps in the Golden Waltz all season long and were only called for it at the Olympics. Which of course was the ideal set up to ensure they had an excuse to place them low enough that they had no possibility to stand on the podium no matter how well they did in the rest of the competition.

  10. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I believe there was footage of Senft talking to Balkov on the phone? It seemed she was involved in the deal. This was why she was suspended, wasn't it?

    And why was she involved if the deal was to keep B&K from medalling?

    I didn't follow the closely and didn't understood why Senft was suspended if it was she who exposed the matter? And if she was involved in wrongdoing, wasn't it unwise for her to do so?
    That's why she was taping the conversation - to get evidence of the deal against B&K.

    She was suspended for participating in the call in the first place, for not reporting this conversation at the time and holding onto the tape for 6 months.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Except that they did those same steps in the Golden Waltz all season long and were only called for it at the Olympics. Which of course was the ideal set up to ensure they had an excuse to place them low enough that they had no possibility to stand on the podium no matter how well they did in the rest of the competition.
    I did not see any of their Golden Waltzes before the Olympics. Only their OD and FD was televised in each event they were in and I didnt see them live this season. I agree they should have been called on it before the Olympics if that was the case. However come Worlds they didnt change how they did the step at all again.

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    What I think is the real travesty was Dubova not knowing the footwork change had occured and not working with B&K to correct it for the Golden Waltz in time for the Oly's. Had they known, then IMHO they would have won the bronze having placed above A&P in the FD portion of that competition.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  13. #233

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    This is a dumb question, but 1998 was back in the day when 4 CD's were drawn. In that year: Silver Samba, Quickstep, Argentine Tango, Golden Waltz.

    Had B&K actually skated the Golden in any of their international events leading up to the Olympics? The GPF had no CD's at all, AFAIR.

    They skated Skate Canada and NHK, so does anyone know what CD's were used there?

  14. #234

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    It was the Silver Samba at Skate Canada not sure about NHK
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  15. #235
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    I am pretty sure the Grand Prix final was the Golden Waltz though. And yes it is a shame Dubova had them doing a critical step in the dance she created incorrectly.

  16. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I am pretty sure the Grand Prix final was the Golden Waltz though. And yes it is a shame Dubova had them doing a critical step in the dance she created incorrectly.
    Ironically, it was the Silver Samba at the GPF in Munich that year too.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Balkov did then and continues to do whatever Piseev tells him to do.
    DL:

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    to get evidence of the deal against B&K.


    holding onto the tape for 6 months.
    It does not make any sense. If the deal was against B/K like you (and the only) claim, why was she holding onto the evidence for so long time? And why was she participating into the deal against her guys in the first place? You are manipulating with facts if they are not in favor for your preferences. But the truth is no matter how much you puff your judge was dirty and played dirty in order to give a medal to B/K that they didn't deserve.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Once again, you're trying to rewrite history.
    I can't understand why you assume you are an appointed historian.

  20. #240

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    However, I wonder what the results would have been if B&K had skated the proper steps in their Golden Waltz. They would have deserved the bronze over A&P. A&P made a blatant mistake in their OD, so even if B&K had been in 4th after the CD's (placing 4th after GW and the Tango not 5th and then 4th respectfully as what happened), they might have edged A&P despite having a craptastic OD that year. IMHO, B&K's side by side steps were better than A&P's complete lack of any skating for about 35-45 seconds of their FD.

    IMHO, Jean Senft was a complete bonehead for not coming forward immediately. Holding onto evidence of wrongdoing is almost just as bad as actually doing what she said they were doing.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

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