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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by lise View Post
    anyone 'friend' her on facebook? She's engaged but her reply to someone asking about him made me think a bit since her reply was something to the effect of he's fine and he's getting out tomorrow.
    Has that profile ever been confirmed to be her?

  2. #342

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    yes it has been confirmed as hers.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by lise View Post
    yes it has been confirmed as hers.
    interesting. I thought her people clearly said she had no presence on the social networking sites and to watch out for fake profiles...

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    RD, it is monitored by others but it is hers

  5. #345
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    Kristi's 91 Worlds LP:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qW8wmbKiI0

    She did 3flip - 3 turn - 3toe. Aside from a single sal, it was a strong performance from Kristi.

  6. #346
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    That impression is entirely subjective, and it's not one I ever heard at that time. Nobody knows whether Tara was purposely "refusing" to show acknowledgment of Michelle. Perhaps she thought she was doing all that was appropriate. Or maybe her mother advised her not to mention Michelle at all because the media might twist her words. And let's take another OGM--Oksana Baiul, for instance. Nancy was kind of a "sacred cow" in early 1994. After Oksana's victory, did she just gush about what a wonderful champion Nancy was and how unfortunate it was that she only got the silver? I honestly don't remember. But IMO the "back story" thing is irrelevant. IOW, I don't buy the argument that as long as you have a back story, any behavior is fine, but if you don't, then being anything less than total perfection is reprehensible.
    I don't know if Oksana ever said anything about Nancy.I seriously doubt she did. But I think it is kind of a different situation because Tara was directly asked about Michelle and could not think of any thing to say, at least according to articles in the press. Michelle was then asked about Tara and said "I like you Tara". I actually wish there was a video of this press conference to see how it all went down. I mean there are so many thing she could have said without gushing...like "I knew she skated great and had high scores and I knew I needed to to my best to win" or something like that. She did not have to go on and on about how great Michelle was.

  7. #347
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    tara's official website says she doesn't have a facebook or myspace.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    I can agree on the first two, but not completely on the third. While I do agree that the general public adored Kwan, to say that they disliked Tara would be a bit of an overstatement, because they barely even knew her. And if they did grow to dislike her, it was probably due to all the negativity of the media coverage. So, that kind of dislike would be a less "studied" dislike than that shown by certain fans and the media.
    I would say the general public "adored" neither Kwan or Tara. The general public didn't care about Kwan or Tara until the Olympics rolled around. Once the Olympics was over it was back to business as usual which didn't include figure skating. In my experience during that time, most general public folks that I ran into thought Tara was an amazing young lady to have won the Olympics at 15 and felt bad for Kwan but that was about it. Only die-hard figure skating fans knew about the negativity and hate surrounding Tara and as a result took sides.


    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Tara was directly asked about Michelle and could not think of any thing to say, at least according to articles in the press. Michelle was then asked about Tara and said "I like you Tara". I actually wish there was a video of this press conference to see how it all went down.
    Yes. I'd like to see this press conference as well. I would be curious to know when Tara was asked directly about Kwan what she said. Did she sit there like a deer caught in the headlights. Did she change the subject? What? And honestly I'd like to know what would be wrong with that, specifically the latter? Most of us were taught if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all. I'm not saying this was the case with Tara, but wouldn't you rather she keep her mouth shut about Kwan if she didn't have anything positive to say? Rather than talk negatively about her to the media?


    I mean there are so many thing she could have said without gushing...like "I knew she skated great and had high scores and I knew I needed to to my best to win" or something like that. She did not have to go on and on about how great Michelle was.
    I again ask, why does Tara have to acknowledge Kwan? Did people feel like if she said Kwan skated great it would somehow make up for her "stealing" the Olympic Gold away from Kwan? Why did Tara need to validate how great Kwan skated? Furthermore, did Kwan ever say anything about how great Tara's skating was after she was beat by her at the Olympics? All I remember her saying was she needed to improve her technical content. No word about Tara having an amazing skate.
    Last edited by Enero; 08-15-2010 at 05:19 AM.

  9. #349

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enero View Post
    ... Furthermore, did Kwan ever say anything about how great Tara's skating was after she was beat by her at the Olympics? All I remember her saying was she needed to improve her technical content. No word about Tara having an amazing skate.
    In an interview shown on the broadcast of the '98 Worlds, Michelle said that Tara had that "spark", or that "fire" whereas she herself did not. Considering that she was asked about Tara's skate just after she had been questioned about her injury not giving her enough time to practice her 3/3 to use at Olys, and a lot of people were saying "Tara won because Michelle couldn't do her 3/3". thought her comments about Tara's "spark" emphasized that the injury and 3/3 were not the sole explanation.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Michelle was then asked about Tara and said "I like you Tara". I actually wish there was a video of this press conference to see how it all went down. I mean there are so many thing she could have said without gushing...like "I knew she skated great and had high scores and I knew I needed to to my best to win" or something like that. She did not have to go on and on about how great Michelle was.
    According to this report, Tara DID say Michelle skated great.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1998/feb/23/sports/sp-22237

    But I believe the question she was asked was what she thought of Michelle, not what she thought of Michelle's performance, which is why her answer was considered canned and evasive, and Michelle's "I like you, Tara" was considered so gracious and classy.

    http://mitchalbom.com/journalism/node_print/1793

    http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/199...ichelle-kwan/2

    Also note that Michelle DID say that Tara skated the best of the night and apparently complimented Tara's performance.

    As someone said earlier, two minutes max on Google.

    Both girls were, in different ways, model competitors and they were quite civil to one another, if not best friends. Only in skating would people be arguing over whether this was "bad" behavior or not.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    In an interview shown on the broadcast of the '98 Worlds, Michelle said that Tara had that "spark", or that "fire" whereas she herself did not. Considering that she was asked about Tara's skate just after she had been questioned about her injury not giving her enough time to practice her 3/3 to use at Olys, and a lot of people were saying "Tara won because Michelle couldn't do her 3/3". thought her comments about Tara's "spark" emphasized that the injury and 3/3 were not the sole explanation.
    I stand corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBZ View Post
    It's not surprising that the most beloved athletes in the world like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods (pre-scandal), Roger Federer, and yes, Michelle Kwan are essentially walking PR manuals. Yes, they have their detractors, but in the mainstream public eye, they are revered and loved, in large part because of this I would assert.

    No offense, but Michelle is not even in the same league as a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods (pre-scandal). No matter how beloved she is in the skating community she did not/does not have the kind branding and popularity that MJ and TW have/had in their respective sports and the general public.
    Last edited by Enero; 08-15-2010 at 05:41 AM.

  12. #352
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    I think the poster meant that MK was for many years the face of figure skating, at least in the U.S., comparable to how Tiger Woods and Roger Federer are the faces of their respective sports.

  13. #353
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    Youtube has a compilation of ladies 3-3 jumps. Not all of the jumps are labeled correctly because it looked to me like Kristi did a 3Flip-3Toe not a 3Lutz-3Toe but I'm not sure. Was Kristi a flutzer?

    Definitely most of the 3Toe-3Toes belong to Midori and Michelle, although Surya did one in Nagano.

    But I believe the question she was asked was what she thought of Michelle, not what she thought of Michelle's performance, which is why her answer was considered canned and evasive, and Michelle's "I like you, Tara" was considered so gracious and classy.
    Christine Brennan described it as Tara being caught off guard by the question and not really being able to answer. She seemed to pick up on the catty subtext of the question, but was not get herself together fast enough to come up with a safe answer. That was a great moment for Michelle though.

    When asked at a post-Olympics press conference what she thought of Michelle's performance, Tara said it was great because that's the answer she was supposed to give, but she hadn't actually seen it.

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceJunkie View Post
    I think the poster meant that MK was for many years the face of figure skating, at least in the U.S., comparable to how Tiger Woods and Roger Federer are the faces of their respective sports.
    Absolutely and that was relevant when Michelle received The Sullivan Award in 2001.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_E._Sullivan_Award
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enero View Post
    No offense, but Michelle is not even in the same league as a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods (pre-scandal). No matter how beloved she is in the skating community she did not/does not have the kind branding and popularity that MJ and TW have/had in their respective sports and the general public.
    of course, but she was as close as skating would ever get. unless you want to consider tonya harding......
    michelle was the michael jordan of her sport and in 2003 in spite of her loss at salt lake (or perhaps even due to public sympathy in light of it) she was declared by many news outlets as the most popular female athlete in the country, not to mention in polls

    you have to consider that for one thing, female athletes get nowhere near the amount of public support, endorsements or branding that male athletes do. only rarely do you have phenoms so widely known as serena
    Last edited by iarispiralllyof; 08-15-2010 at 07:03 AM.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enero View Post
    I would say the general public "adored" neither Kwan or Tara. The general public didn't care about Kwan or Tara until the Olympics rolled around. Once the Olympics was over it was back to business as usual which didn't include figure skating.
    disagree

    http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/USAToday...s&pqatl=google

    http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vau...OW-1999-03.pdf

    http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vau...-02.pdf#page=2

    http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vau...-07.pdf#page=4

    of course in most sports where the olympics are the crowning achievement the athletes tend to experience their ten minutes of fame during the olympics and quickly fade soon after, but that michelle participated in so many olympics and was presented by the media as an american sweetheart figure each time meant the american public has a much stronger memory of her. I didn't even get into skating until this past year and amongst my friends and colleagues, if they could list a skater (usually only a handful) michelle was always on the list. and I remember being in elementary school in 1998 after the olympics my female classmates and female teachers all seemed to express a kind of annoyance at tara and preference for michelle (I'm not claiming this was the majority of people, but it surely seemed like a trend) and again in 2002 a lot of female classmates who surely were not skating enthusiasts talked about how sad it was that she lost.

    skating will never have the broad appeal that basketball, football or tennis have in US. but michelle does have a solid place in 90's and 2000's pop culture. I even remember michelle's loss being enthusiastically discussed on a freaking hip hop radio station back in 2002 after the olympics. ppl might not care except once every 4 years, but during that one time every 4 years, the american public embraced michelle, for sure
    Last edited by iarispiralllyof; 08-15-2010 at 07:32 AM.

  17. #357

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    While I do agree that the general public adored Kwan, to say that they disliked Tara would be a bit of an overstatement, because they barely even knew her. And if they did grow to dislike her, it was probably due to all the negativity of the media coverage.
    Well, that's essentially what I've been saying. The general public barely knew her, yes, but they knew of her, and what they did know wasn't very positive thanks to the prevailing narrative being disseminated by the media, which was the direct result of her team mishandling the way she was packaged and marketed to the public IMO.

    Of course, I don't have any empirical evidence to definitively support this claim; all I can do is speak from personal observation and experience. But I knew many skating layman back in the day who couldn't tell a lutz from a twizzle, but they were unanimous in their love for Michelle and their active dislike for Tara. And if I had to sum up their collective impressions of her, it boiled down to the fact that they saw her as a spoiled brat.

    But maybe we had very different experiences at the time. Given my experiences with those layman people, however, and seeing how much their impressions of Tara mirrored those in the insular community of hardcore skating fans, gave me the impression there was an underlying consensus across the board on how she was being perceived.

    But you're right, it's a subjective assessment, so it could easily be an overstatement.

    Maybe Tara had no idea that she was perceived that way by many, at least not until she got older. Regardless, it doesn't mean any of it was her fault specifically.
    I think that's a fair point. I don't think I ever said Tara is to blame for the lukewarm reception she received in skating. I think my initial assertion from the beginning was that her team mishandled the way she was packaged and marketed to the skating public and, had they made better choices, her popularity with the press and fans could've been a lot higher and longer-lasting. She was only a 15 year old kid, so I hardly expected her to be aware of and negotiate all those variables.

    When exactly did Tara do that, and what specifically did she say? (I'm referring to Tara, not her mother.)
    I wasn't referring to Tara specifically, but to her team. I was disagreeing with your assertion that Tara's public persona wasn't oppositional, and listed ways in which I thought that perception came to be formed and internalized by fans. And unfortunately the actions of her mother played a big role in that--maybe even the biggest role. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that point.

    Nobody knows whether Tara was purposely "refusing" to show acknowledgment of Michelle.
    Well, it's hard not to assume it wasn't purposeful when she was asked point-blank what she thought of Michelle, and had nothing to say. She might've had a plethora of justifiable reasons to do so, but all that matters is how that action is perceived.

    You're trying to rationalize Tara's thought process, and I'm saying that's beside the point. These perceptions rise and fall and stick for the most nonsensical reasons sometimes, which is why Kwan played it safe and gave, not just a respectful acknowledgement, but a seemingly heartfelt admission.

    She could've been lying through her teeth when she said, "I like you, Tara," but the next day the media hailed her as classy and gracious, elevating her appeal even higher, and skating forums roared over the perceived slight by Tara.

    But IMO the "back story" thing is irrelevant. IOW, I don't buy the argument that as long as you have a back story, any behavior is fine, but if you don't, then being anything less than total perfection is reprehensible.
    I couldn't disagree more on backstory being irrelevant, and ironically you cite the one person who IMO benefitted the most from having a compelling backstory. In fact, I'd argue Oksana owes her world and olympic titles almost exclusively to her Cinderella backstory--but I digress.

    And I said many times that there are several combination of factors that born these narratives. Having a great backstory doesn't automatically guarantee you anything, but it can compensate for a lot when other aspects of the whole picture are lacking in some way, in the same way a seemingly humble disposition can compensate a lot when someone doesn't necessarily have an easily relatable backstory.

    It isn't an "either/or" thing. Each situation is different for each athlete, with its own set of unique circumstances, which can (and do) widely vary from sport to sport. Like ArtisticFan said, you work with what you have, and considering the circumstances Tara faced--being a figure skater, being in direct competition with an already established star, not having an easily marketable backstory, etc.--it would've helped her public image a great deal if she had played up the humble card. Did she have to? No, but there were consequences for doing so, given the circumstances of the situation.

    (Now, I could accept the argument that her "team" (i.e., mainly her mother) set her up as being oppositional.)
    Yes, that's what I meant. Thought I made it clear, but I guess not.

    I agree with that point, and please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but the implication of your argument seems to be, "Tara is directly responsible for all the dislike she received because she didn't do enough to head it off."
    Nope. Again, I'm asserting her team let her down. Sorry I didn't really read your analogy (it's late here) but rest assured, I'm not blaming Tara.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enero View Post
    I again ask, why does Tara have to acknowledge Kwan?
    And I AGAIN say, because it would have made her look like a humble person, and we identify and like rooting for people who seem humble.

    Kwan did it and that "I like you" comment is still remembered to this day.

    It isn't rocket science. You catch more flies with honey, no?

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG
    No one ever beat Michelle at Nationals due to a 3/3.
    What about Tara in '97? Her combo certainly helped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carolla5501
    LOL! How many tangents can one thread take off on....
    Well, if people start posting cookie recipes in this thread, then we'll know things have gone completely overboard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Well, if people start posting cookie recipes in this thread, then we'll know things have gone completely overboard.
    When cookies start coming up, you`ll know Sasha has hijacked the thread.
    Cheering for the headcases

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBZ View Post


    And I AGAIN say, because it would have made her look like a humble person, and we identify and like rooting for people who seem humble.

    Kwan did it and that "I like you" comment is still remembered to this day.

    It isn't rocket science. You catch more flies with honey, no?
    I guess this is moot point now. Since proof has been posted in this thread that Tara did give Kwan some acknowledgment. Perhaps it didn't meet the standards of the uber-Kwan fans, short of bowing down to the ""Kween" I don't think anything would've been accepted , but it was an acknowledgment nonetheless.

    I think many Kwan fans pick Tara apart for every little thing she did and didn't do simply because she beat their favorite. I mean seriously Tara didn't say "I like you" about Kwan so now she is not being humble? Come on people. Tara was never going to win any points with some simply because she upset the universe by beating Kwan for the Olympic Gold.

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