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  1. #1

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    Anne Rice Announces Quitting Christianity

    Anne Rice's Facebook Page
    Discussion on Beliefnet

    Interesting mainly because she publicly discussed her conversion from atheism to Roman Catholicism. Then she wrote the Christ is Lord series (which I didn't think was done as well as her vampire books).

    Thoughts? I do think the reactions, both from Facebook and the Beliefnet discussion, are pretty interesting to read.

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    Well, she has a rather sad definition of what it is to be a "Christian." And she quits in the name of Christ?

    It reminds me of a scene in a book I just read called "The Burning Time." It's based on the Catholic Church's persecution of Wiccans in Ireland. There's a priest who essentially loses his faith based on the conduct of the violent, torturous, and murderous conduct of the Bishop towards the Wiccans. It's one thing to not like the interpretation of Christianity by a group of people or to not like certain conduct of the Catholic Church (and thereby question the infallibility of the Pope). But, I don't think that means one has to completely give up your own belief in Jesus and the Bible. And I'm saying this as someone who definitely is not Christian. It's kind of sad that there are people who lose all the faith that was a source of comfort and strength to them just because of the way some others interpret or misuse Christianity.

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    Yeah there are so many that have left catholicism due to all the molestation. It seems ridiculous considering it was not God who did these things or advocated them but man.

    Reminds me of the god is not great book, disliking religion because it started wars. Well it was man that started those wars not god.

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    I don't think it means she is quitting religion completely. It seems that she is quitting the organized part of it, and telling all the people and their "rules" to, in so many words, stuff it. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by DickButtonFan View Post
    Yeah there are so many that have left catholicism due to all the molestation. It seems ridiculous considering it was not God who did these things or advocated them but man.
    .
    I think Catholocism is different. She didn't say she was quitting Catholocism. She said she was quitting being a Christian. I understand quitting Catholocism because of the molestation. Yes, it was men who did the molesting, but they were priests and there seems to be some evidence that people very high up in the Church, including possibly the Pope, covered up for that. It's hard to believe, as Catholocism teaches, that the Pope is infallible, if he is doing that. It is hard to seek religious counsel from priests who are ordained in a system that implicitly condones or allows some pretty horrible stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    It's hard to believe, as Catholocism teaches, that the Pope is infallible, if he is doing that.
    The Church does not teach that everything the pope does is infallible. Infallibility only applies to the pope issuing theological/doctrinal teachings. Most modern popes have issued very few teachings that invoked infallibility. Certainly, no pope has issued a doctrinal or theological statement of infallibility endorsing child molestation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    Well, she has a rather sad definition of what it is to be a "Christian." And she quits in the name of Christ?

    It reminds me of a scene in a book I just read called "The Burning Time." It's based on the Catholic Church's persecution of Wiccans in Ireland.
    Not to nit-pick, but...

    I haven't read it, but I looked it up on Amazon. Two different reviews say it concerns the Inquisition. Wicca didn't exist in that time. Wicca has only been around since the mid-20th century.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...283155&s=books

    http://wiki.wiccanweb.ca/index.php?t...story_of_Wicca

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_hist.htm

    I will say that, from your description, that book sounds a lot like the one I am reading The Witch of Cologne, about a Sephardic Jewish midwife in the 1660's who is tried for being a witch. A young canon (and cousin to the archbishop) becomes smitten with her, and manages to not only prvent her from going to the gallows, but he then falls in love with her, becomes her lover and has a child with her. The friar/Inquisitor who was initially supposed to try her was outwitted through various means, but succeeds in burning the canon's retreat house while the midwife is upstairs in labor.

    The midwife and the canon flee to the Netherlands, and when I last left off, the canon had converted from Catholicism to Protestantism, and was a very popular pastor, who also spoke out boldly on political matters. There is a scheme in the works to lure him back to Cologne, where the plan is to have him tried for consorting with and marrying the midwife. I think it will all come to a very bad end.
    Last edited by Karina1974; 07-29-2010 at 08:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karina1974 View Post
    Not to nit-pick, but...

    I haven't read it, but I looked it up on Amazon. Two different reviews say it concerns the Inquisition. Wicca didn't exist in that time. Wicca has only been around since the mid-20th century.
    I have read it. And the book itself uses the term Wicca. In addition to using other terms like "the Old Ways" and "The Craft." According to the postscript in the book, many women were tortured or burned as witches by the Church during the Inquisition. But, whatever term you want to use, the point is that when leaders in your own Church engage in horrific misconduct, it can affect one's faith in the Church even though it's not God doing the acting.

    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    The Church does not teach that everything the pope does is infallible. Infallibility only applies to the pope issuing theological/doctrinal teachings. Most modern popes have issued very few teachings that invoked infallibility. Certainly, no pope has issued a doctrinal or theological statement of infallibility endorsing child molestation.
    Regardless of whether the Pope himself is infallible or just certain teachings that are infallible, people are going to have a hard time trusting in a Church that is headed by someone who covers up molestation by priests. Would you choose to go to such a person for religious or moral advice? I certainly wouldn't. IMO, this is not a situation where people are blaming God for what lay men have done. They are blaming the top people in the Church for what priests did. And contrary to what Anne Rice may believe, leaving the Catholic Church does not necessarily require quitting being a Christian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    I have read it. And the book itself uses the term Wicca. In addition to using other terms like "the Old Ways" and "The Craft."
    The word "wicca" does mean "witch" in Old English; it actually is referring to a male witch. However, if the book's author is using the term "Wicca" to describe the belief systems of the people being persecuted, than they are not being historically accurate.

    According to the postscript in the book, many women were tortured or burned as witches by the Church during the Inquisition.
    I don't doubt that; you're talking to someone who not only is a Pagan, but who also is descended from Sephardic Jews whose family fled Europe during the Inquisition and ended up in Jamaica of all places. And, if you look back at my post, I added in a short description of a book that I am reading that addresses that very concept -- a Jewish midwife accused of witchcraft because she uses elements from the Kabbalah in her practice.
    Last edited by Karina1974; 07-29-2010 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karina1974 View Post
    The word "wicca" does mean "witch" in Old English; it actually is referring to a male witch. However, if the book's author is using the term "Wicca" to describe the belief system of the people being persecuted, than they are not being historically accurate.
    Okay. Use whatever definition you like. Personally, I'm really not interested in thread drift on the use of the term "Wicca" in some book to derail this thread. Once again, my point is that misconduct by higher-ups in a Church can impact a person's faith in that Church. Anne Rice seems to be going beyond that and claiming that she is quitting being a Christian, not just quitting Catholocism.
    Last edited by Allskate; 07-29-2010 at 09:22 PM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    Anne Rice seems to be going beyond that and claiming that she is quitting being a Christian, not just quitting Catholocism.
    The posting on her Facebook page seems to imply that all Christians are anti-gay, anti-feminist, etc. etc., and that's why she's quitting. Which is too bad, because while there are a lot of very vocal and visible Christians expressing those views, there are plenty of Christians who feel differently and who are working for e.g. gay and feminist causes within their own denominations. I don't know why she wouldn't be aware of that. Unless (cynical) she has a new book or something that needs publicizing...
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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