Jeremy Abbott landed a quad toe in his free skate at US Nationals, in addition to 12 other exquisite elements, including a triple axel. Not to mention, fantastic skating skills, seamless transitions, and masterful choreography. The quad was amazing, but it was one element among one of the best programs in memorable history, in my opinion. Personally, I have no doubt that if Jeremy had skated his two programs from Nationals at the Olympics, he would have been the champion. His programs are the ones rewarded under COP, and rightfully so. Plushenko and Joubert just don't seem to get it.
Last edited by Jenna; 07-28-2010 at 05:16 AM.
Perhaps, one of the greatest, but also, without a doubt, one of the most (if not numero uno) controversial skaters as well.
His hissy fit after the Olympics was pathetic and juvenile. He ruined his reputation around the world. Instead of accepting the OSM with grace (as it is still a fantastic achievement) he "jokingly" stepped onto the top step of the podium and whined to the media about how he was robbed of gold. Then, he was banned from competing in ISU sanctioned competition ever again. These past few months have not exactly been Plushenko's moments in the sun.
Last edited by Jenna; 07-28-2010 at 04:50 AM.
He is a great basic skater with powerful strokes and clean edges, but he is just that. Skaters like Chan and Takahashi have been able to demonstrate more than just that with effortless strokes, more skating on one foot and frequent changes in direction.
His programs are empty choreographically and he mostly just skates from one element to the next. Chan and Abbott for example have been able to demonstrate that they can link all elements together, thus further increasing in their difficulty. Abbott in particular can also link his elements and choreography to the music/ tone of the program.
He is surely a very crowd pleasing skater but he does not demonstrate thorough and sophisticated understanding of the musical rythym and style like Takahashi and Lambiel.
Overall his competitive programs are very much alike. The only real performance I love from Joubert was his exhibition from last year's Worlds when he skated to Allelujah. That was some wonderful skating that showed off his strengths as a clean, solid basic skater.
Perhaps his focus on the quad is why he is relatively lacking in these areas compared to other skaters, but this is precisely what is meant when some people said "I love a good quad, but not at the expense of everything else". And in this case I think he deserved all the credit for the quad, but he also deserved lower PCS than other skaters who were able to demonstrate more variety, quality and difficulty in their PCS components with or without the quad.
"in addition to 12 other exquisite elements"...
I agree that Abbott was phenomenal and great but his last spin was a level two because he ended with the classic but low level scratch spin. Of course he got great GOE because he did it GREAT!!! But many could be like "a level 2 spin?? Terrible."
Not to mention the fact that the components in either of the aforementioned performances do not even come close to the level of Abbott at US Nationals. If I began to discuss this aspect, I might be at the keyboard for well over 20 minutes..
on topic,nice interview by Brian, it must have been difficult to bounce back from Olys sad feelings.
Last edited by senorita; 07-28-2010 at 05:49 AM.
Inman was *involved* in transition formulation. He did not singlehandedly write the rules. So to say he is "responsible for making criteria so vague" is absurd. Maybe he wrote a more detailed list and it got overturned or watered down at some point. And Inman did not issue "orders" to anyone - he sent out an email describing what he saw as a misapplication of the standards, based on what Plushenko himself said (that he and Joubert had no transitions because they were focused on the jumps). He had no power to order anyone to do anything; he was simply pointing out that he saw marks being awarded that were way out of line with what the skater is actually doing. What he himself saw or didn't see in his own judging is irrelevant.
And yes, there is a list of transitions that skaters can do. Every skater learns them in skating lessons - stroking, crossovers, 3-turns, mohawks, choctaws, brackets, toepick runs, half-turn jumps, etc. etc. The point which was made earlier, and which you have selectively ignored, is that an Olympic-level skater should be able to do more than basic 3-turns, crossovers, and mohawks, and should be rewarded with more points if s/he does more than those.
I would have been here sooner, but the bus kept stopping for other people to get on it. - Sheldon Cooper, The Big Bang Theory
This must be the millionth discussion after the same old pattern:
Someone (from the Quad Bloc) says they like to see a Quad and prefer having winners with a Quad.
The Transition Quad enters the discussion, saying that transitions, choreo yadayada are more important overall (wahhhh - COP-friendly - wahhhh)
The Quad Bloc says they still like the Quad and the Quad makes it more difficult to have complicated transitions etc. (wahhh Quad needs to be worth more wahhh)
The Transition Quad accuses the Quad Bloc of being satisfied with a skater coming out on the ice and just doing a Quad-stroke-Triple etc. And of course everyone who is a member of the Quad Bloc is automatically a Plushybot.
Then the Quad Bloc accuses the Transition Bloc of being even satisfied with a skater just doing doubles, if there is enough yadayadayada. Oh, sometimes it also cites the argument that single's skating is looking like single ice dance these days.
But you know what: The Transition Bloc won!!! Evan-freaking-Lysacek is the freaking Olympic Champ! Patrick Chan can win competitions and medals with junior/ladies jump content. Why do you keep arguing about something that has already been decided in your favour? Since you won the whole thing, how about pitying the Quad Bloc or at least ignoring it?
As a member of the Quad Bloc - we are like relicts from an ancient time! We are like these old grandmas, reminiscing about the good old times. And we just enjoy to mope and to complain about the current quadless skates. Once in a while other relicts throw us a bone - like Joubert in this interview - and we just enjoy it, and of course start moping. Can you people just let us mope without rubbing in our faces that in fact the dispute is already over and that we were / are wrong about everything?
But how often pray tell do Chan and Abbott actually go clean? And I'm not sure I'd call Chan a great jumper @ this point. Abbott at times does go clean and when he does should truly be rewarded but in a lot of other times he's a mess.His programs are empty choreographically and he mostly just skates from one element to the next. Chan and Abbott for example have been able to demonstrate that they can link all elements together, thus further increasing in their difficulty. Abbott in particular can also link his elements and choreography to the music/ tone of the program.
That is frankly my issue with the whole transition/choregraphy thing. Is that we can get some very very messy programs and these transition guys with 2 sometimes 3 falls still get huge PCS. I don't particularly think that's good for the sport. I'd actually rather see Chan and Abbott do a little less and also fall less.
Not to mention that not only is the Quad going but more and more are becoming inconsistent with the 3axel. Jumps have always been historically a huge part of singles, and I kind of don't blame Joubert who spent all of his time working to get the jumps consistent to have to react as the sport suddenly switched. And he has a point about a transition in between a quad, not being really possible, which is why I'd like to see the transition mark in PCS frankly go. And transitions be rewarded in choregraphy and a factor in GOE.
It also goes in with the whole Lepisto World medal. Surely the sport can have a balance between making it only jumps but not writing of jump difficulty as frankly unimportant. To me the real balanced skater has both jumps and spins, footwork etc. I'm tired of great jumps not being called part of the package they are.