View Poll Results: Who's the best of these multiple world medalists (but no golds nor an Olympic medal)?

Voters
112. You may not vote on this poll
  • Julie Lynn Holmes (1970, 1971)

    5 4.46%
  • Claudia Kristofics-Binder (1981, 1982)

    0 0%
  • Claudia Leistner (1983, 1989)

    1 0.89%
  • Tiffany Chin (1985, 1986)

    23 20.54%
  • Surya Bonaly (1993, 1994, 1995)

    34 30.36%
  • Fumie Suguri (2002, 2003, 2006)

    32 28.57%
  • Carolina Kostner (2005, 2008)

    14 12.50%
  • Other (please specify)

    3 2.68%
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 62
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,422
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Best ever 2 times or more Ladies World Medalist (but no golds and no Olympic medals)?

    There are a select few who have multiple world medals but no golds, and also no Olympic medals. Who's the best?

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    9,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Tiffany Chin was the most talented of the group you listed, but she had only one really good year skating-wise in 1984.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    333
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Tiffany Chin without a doubt. Too bad injuries/muscle imbalance/crazy mom took her out of contention.

    Carolina Kostner is very lucky to have her two world medals. She beat Kwan for 2005 bronze by less than a point which was supposed to groom her for an Olympic medal at home. We all know how that one turned out. And don't even get me started on her 2008 silver.

    Fumie Suguri also got lucky with her world medals. She won her two bronzes because of Cohen's mistakes and an easy qualifying group in 2003. I guess she deserved her 2006 silver but benefited yet again from Cohen's mistakes. I'm not sure she would have even won over Kimmie had she been clean.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Dashing Between Bennetton and Krispy Kreme
    Posts
    2,451
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    deleted
    Last edited by essence_of_soy; 07-23-2010 at 03:47 AM.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,778
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19086
    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    Fumie Suguri also got lucky with her world medals. She won her two bronzes because of Cohen's mistakes and an easy qualifying group in 2003. I guess she deserved her 2006 silver but benefited yet again from Cohen's mistakes.
    Errrr . . . Everybody in the field could count on Cohen's consistent mistakes . . . apparently over two Olympic cycles and two scoring systems. Judging Cohen on a total of individual elements did not benefit her anymore than judging her on an overall program.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-23-2010 at 01:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    473
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Fumie's 2003 Worlds performances may not cut it in most cases for a medal. But Fumie didn't get lucky in 2002 because of Cohen's mistakes. At that time, Suguri was not necessarily an inferior skater to Cohen. If both went clean, Cohen would rank higher simply because of the judges' favor. Many even thought that Suguri should have the SP, over Slutskaya.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,168
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    Fumie's 2003 Worlds performances may not cut it in most cases for a medal. But Fumie didn't get lucky in 2002 because of Cohen's mistakes. At that time, Suguri was not necessarily an inferior skater to Cohen. If both went clean, Cohen would rank higher simply because of the judges' favor. Many even thought that Suguri should have the SP, over Slutskaya.
    Agreed. Especially taking the programs into consideration, Suguri was clearly the better and more competitive skater in 2002. Too bad about the skate order at SLC (both sp and lp). I really would have Suguri beat Cohen in both programs and overall for 4th place.

    Both Cohen and Suguri made some mistakes in 2003. The whole uneven qualifying round situation didn't help but who is to say they would have skated the same in the lp if Suguri wasn't so much ahead in the medal race?

    Suguri skated better at Nationals and the Olympics than at Worlds in 2006, and if she had gotten either the flip combo or the sal she would have won. Even as it was I believe she should have higher PCS (compared to Meissner!!!) and won by default. If it were up to me I would probably have the lp ranking as Suguri, Meier, Sokolova, Meissner, Cohen.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,422
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    Both Cohen and Suguri made some mistakes in 2003. The whole uneven qualifying round situation didn't help but who is to say they would have skated the same in the lp if Suguri wasn't so much ahead in the medal race?
    I don't recall Suguri's performance in the QR - What would you reckon would have been her placement had she been placed in Group A vs. Group B?

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,168
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    I don't recall Suguri's performance in the QR - What would you reckon would have been her placement had she been placed in Group A vs. Group B?
    I don't remember either, but it couldn't have been better than Cohen who landed 7 triples. IIRC Suguri's all time best record was 6 triples.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,175
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Tiffany Chin IMO. She was a wonderful skater who could have won the 84 Olympics if figures had not existed. Too bad injuries and illness marred her career.

    Record wise, consistency, and longevity, it is Suguri, but having seen Suguri and Chin both skate at their best there is no way I would consider Fumie the "superior" skater. Chin had potential to be a World Champion and to beat any skater of her era (I know she never beat Witt but easily had potential to). Fumie did have either.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,175
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    Fumie Suguri also got lucky with her world medals. She won her two bronzes because of Cohen's mistakes and an easy qualifying group in 2003. I guess she deserved her 2006 silver but benefited yet again from Cohen's mistakes. I'm not sure she would have even won over Kimmie had she been clean.
    With Worlds in Japan I think Fumie would have beaten Sasha at the 2002 Worlds even if Sasha had been close or atleast as close is she is even capable of. Sasha was overmarked at the Olympics in the U.S, benefiting from the home country advantage. It is laughable they were able to potray her as a gold medal contender in SLC with virtually no international pedigree at that point. Suguri had that advantage come Worlds in Japan. Sasha's LP at Worlds had 2 falls as her only mistakes and her marks were tech. 5.2-5.5, 5.5-5.7 presentation. Those werent going to be huge even had she gone clean. Sasha in 2002 wasnt that great yet, poorly choreographed Carmen with hardly any transitional moves, slow, weak stroking, ugly back in her death drop, even worse jumping technique. At the Goodwill Games on neutral ground that season when both skated a clean short and similar long (mistakes wise) Suguri dusted Cohen.

    As for the later occasions as bardtoob said as well every top skater of that era could count on Sasha's mistakes. Michelle, Irina, Shizuka, all did as well. She wasnt even capable of clean long programs really.

    That said I always thought of Fumie as sort of the best of the 2nd tier of that era, just a notch below the very best. She never once beat Michelle in how many years competing against her. I believe the only time she beat Irina was when she was just returning from her illness. She did often beat Cohen and Arakawa but ended up with a less glittered career overall than both.

    I also dont think she would have beaten Meissner at the 2006 Worlds even had she been clean, though if she were squeeky clean then it would have been close. If she did just one triple-triple she would have, but I have never seen her do one in competition.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,175
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    It is interesting all the votes for Bonaly. Yet Bonaly was only the 5th best skater (behind Baiul, Kerrigan, Sato, and Chen) of a period people keep saying was weak- 93 to 95. Like I said on another thread the field during that period was in fact extremely deep, it just lacked a dominant all timer leading the way.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,778
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19086
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Chin had potential to be a World Champion and to beat any skater of her era (I know she never beat Witt but easily had potential to).
    Midori Ito 1986 Worlds and don't forget how she destroyed Tonya Harding at 1986 Skate America . . .

    Tiffany got so much help from compulsory figures that it is ridiculous to even compare her to no political clout all free skating Fumie Suguri.

    -----------

    I wonder what would have happened if Tiffany Chin had competed in an all free skating format in 1986.

    Tiffany Chin (USA) - 1986 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program
    vs
    Midori Ito - 1986 World Championships Long Program
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-23-2010 at 09:05 PM.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    NY/NJ
    Posts
    4,924
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    32055
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It is interesting all the votes for Bonaly. Yet Bonaly was only the 5th best skater (behind Baiul, Kerrigan, Sato, and Chen) of a period people keep saying was weak- 93 to 95. Like I said on another thread the field during that period was in fact extremely deep, it just lacked a dominant all timer leading the way.
    On what basis was Bonaly fifth best? I'm not saying she wasn't, but it doesn't seem that cut and dry. Bonaly had some pretty good competitive results: 5-time European champion and 3 consecutive silver medals at Worlds (arguably being robbed of a gold medal at '93 Worlds). Her basics were not so great but she generally showed strong technical jumping content and pushed the envelope by attempting quads and triple-triples. I haven't voted yet, but I think there's a decent argument for saying she was the best of the bunch in this poll.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,422
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post

    Tiffany got so much help from compulsory figures that it is ridiculous to even compare her to no political clout all free skating Fumie Suguri.

    -----------

    I wonder what would have happened if Tiffany Chin had competed in an all free skating format in 1986.

    Tiffany Chin (USA) - 1986 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program
    vs
    Midori Ito - 1986 World Championships Long Program
    Interesting how one's results in figures suddenly "improves" over time if you stick around long enough, Tiffany was 14th in compulsories at 1983 Worlds and 12th at 1984 Olympics.... then all of sudden is 2nd in 1985 Worlds and 4th in 1986 Worlds...

    FYI, Midori got 5th place the Long program at 1986 Worlds skating in the 3rd to last group (Tiffany was 4th in that segment).

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,778
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19086
    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    FYI, Midori got 5th place the Long program at 1986 Worlds skating in the 3rd to last group (Tiffany was 4th in that segment).
    Well, the judges had to leave room just in case the final group landed their 2A-3S, 3T-3T, 3F, 3Lp . . . and we all know that Midori's hand down on the 3Lz was as serious as Tiffany's hand down on the 3S.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-23-2010 at 09:37 PM.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,130
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Midori Ito 1986 Worlds and don't forget how she destroyed Tonya Harding at 1986 Skate America . . .

    Tiffany got so much help from compulsory figures that it is ridiculous to even compare her to no political clout all free skating Fumie Suguri.

    -----------

    I wonder what would have happened if Tiffany Chin had competed in an all free skating format in 1986.

    Tiffany Chin (USA) - 1986 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program
    vs
    Midori Ito - 1986 World Championships Long Program

    Chin's best year was 84. After that she no longer had the jumps to be competitive for a world title. For me her SP at 84 Olympics is still a master class in skating.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Staring at the ocean, anywhere anytime
    Posts
    9,862
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11372
    If you allow one time medallists with no golds and no Olympic medals, the answer is Tonya Harding.

    From the list given, Surya.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,422
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Well, the judges had to leave room just in case the final group landed their 2A-3S, 3T-3T, 3F, 3Lp . . . and we all know that Midori's hand down on the 3Lz was as serious as Tiffany's hand down on the 3S.


    Interestingly, the judges could have dropped Tiffany as low as 7th in the long program and she would have still won the bronze only because Ivanova and Kondrashova skated even worse....

    The other placement people talk about from that segment was Thomas over Manley for 2nd place in the LP, which prevented Katarina Witt from being a 5 time World Champion....

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,763
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    If you allow one time medallists with no golds and no Olympic medals, the answer is Tonya Harding.

    From the list given, Surya.

    One time medalists? Kadavy

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •