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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    English isn't my first language either so maybe I misunderstood you. In the beginning of the article you call them "2010 Olympic bronze medalist in Vancouver in pairs with Maxim Shabalin". I understood this as the pairs discipline, instead of ice dance, so I thought it was a lapsus.

    Sorry for nitpicking. I really appreciate your translating this article.
    Nitpicking is good! Thank you and TAHbKA for your help!
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  2. #22
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    Really classy of her indeed. Both she and Shabalin are great ice dancers and very good people, never looking for excuses or badmouthing their rivals. Interesting that she's never had any injuries throughout her career. IIRC, Maya Usova stayed injury-free too. Pity, neither of them won an Oly gold.

  3. #23
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    Their tango both at the Euros and the Olympics was my fav dance of all that season. I saw it live in Tallinn and it was just magnificent. So much more powerful and smooth at the same time than that of any of the other couples.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumba View Post
    I never was their fan until the last season when all 3 programmes of theirs became my favourite among all the couples that season. Their so elegant, passionate and mature CD, the funny and really original OD (now when the Olympics are over and the proper teams got Gold and Silver - are there any offended left?...), and their so tender and emotional FD.
    But surely this is their classy attitude that attracts many, I guess. They both are beautiful people on and off the ice
    Their OD was and is still deeply troubling. The camp approach to another culture with no real effort to understand that culture is a profound problem.

    I think in the last couple of years, the best way to enjoy D&S was in the compulsories, where you can see how good they really are, without the impact of unfortunate choreographic choices. Even if L&K were a good technical and personal match for D&S through their struggles, perhaps an outside choreographer would have given them programs that would have suited them better.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I liked her comment on V&M. I think/hope she is right... their style looks really good on them because they are freaking brilliant and their skating skills are so pure, but that streamlined, romantic style really does not work on lesser couples, and it's not a trend I want to see.
    I don't think the dramatic and classical Russian style necessarily works better for teams with 'lesser' skills either - unless the skaters try and hide their weaknesses in the drama.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sk8tn View Post
    Their OD was and is still deeply troubling. The camp approach to another culture with no real effort to understand that culture is a profound problem.

    Whom does it trouble now I wonder? They did skate it during the Russian ice shows and nobody complained. It was clear from the start that after the Olympics - noone would remember that case . All was just another media stir to build up interest prior the Games

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumba View Post
    Whom does it trouble now I wonder? They did skate it during the Russian ice shows and nobody complained. It was clear from the start that after the Olympics - noone would remember that case . All was just another media stir to build up interest prior the Games
    I don't imagine the Australian Aborigines feel quite this way.

  8. #28
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    Interesting that all indignation disappeared right after the tournament. We see no notes of protest or anything close to the hysteria that we saw prior the Olys
    Just to rememebr that time - the last thing Oksana and Maksim needed, considering Maxes ruined knees, prior the most important tournament in their lives was to have that kind of attention to their personas. Oksana and Maksim managed to bear this with dignity and showed no hesitation or disrespect.
    I have no intention to revive this topic for 30---> pages, I just say what I think of it.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumba View Post
    Interesting that all indignation disappeared right after the tournament. We see no notes of protest or anything close to the hysteria that we saw prior the Olys
    Just to rememebr that time - the last thing Oksana and Maksim needed, considering Maxes ruined knees, prior the most important tournament in their lives was to have that kind of attention to their personas. Oksana and Maksim managed to bear this with dignity and showed no hesitation or disrespect.
    I have no intention to revive this topic for 30---> pages, I just say what I think of it.
    And I totally agree! I like their OD, at least it wasn't boring like almost 99% original dances we saw this year. And I can't even imagine how hard it was for Oxana and Max, it makes me like them even more and I already miss them so much...

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn_girl View Post
    And I totally agree! I like their OD, at least it wasn't boring like almost 99% original dances we saw this year. And I can't even imagine how hard it was for Oxana and Max, it makes me like them even more and I already miss them so much...
    Yes I miss all of the three D/S teams so much .

  11. #31
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    They could easily stay till Sochi, if not the health problems. I even can not imagine how cool they might become. Their CDs were superb.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by pumba View Post
    Whom does it trouble now I wonder? They did skate it during the Russian ice shows and nobody complained.
    AFAIK in Russia there is limited awareness of the oppression/marginalization of indigenous people and of the policy tradition which has aimed to assimilate indigenous peoples.

    Didn't most of Russia's indigenous people (the Aluits IIRC or something like that) get killed off?


    It was clear from the start that after the Olympics - noone would remember that case . All was just another media stir to build up interest prior the Games
    People aware of it will remember it. But most people aren't aware of it - and the misinterpretation of indigenous culture is nothing new. Even if the dance was supposed to be 'pre-historical', it still expressed an appalling lack of awareness about Aboriginals on the part of Domshab's team. They used 'Aboriginal' very loosely, which indicated that it didn't have much relevance or meaning to them - whereas doing their research would have revealed the relevance and meaning..

    And one of the problems posed by the situation was that there was no protocol in place to deal with it. For example, there was no rule allowing for the demand that the program be changed so that it was more culturally appropriate. And no rule providing for the withdrawal of a dance team which had a deeply offensive program - though a case can be made in support of forced withdrawal. In the end, D&S showing their blankets in the Kiss and Cry was a poor attempt at reconciliation.

    I'm sure that indigenous politicians will remember this situation acutely the next time they are involved in a major sporting event.
    Last edited by Japanfan; 07-23-2010 at 10:50 AM.

  13. #33
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    Just say you don't like them - that would be shorter

  14. #34
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    Thanks so much for the interivew and all your work.

    I found one bit quite sad; how they had "regrets" because after everything they went through, the bronze wasn't worth it. I hope one day she can see it differently, and can love and appreciate her Olympic experience and having a medal to her name.

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    The problem with the OD for me was the skating itself.And I won't blame it on Max's bad knees, it was the whole concept that Linichuk had choreographically wise. I don't know anything about aboriginals and yet I was by the choreography.
    They deserved better programs,they shouldn't be stuck in just drama and nothing else for the last couple of years.So, my problem is Linichuk and not them.
    But an olympic medal is an olympic medal and it's quite an achievement.It's wrong to feel that it wasn't worth it.Somebody has to be first, somebody second, and somebody third.What about couples that never get an olympic medal?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumba View Post
    Just say you don't like them - that would be shorter
    Maybe because that would be inaccurate.

    If you're going to dump an assertion that the program didn't offend anyone because there have been no official protests to a Russian show tour, people will respond directly to that.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumba View Post
    Just say you don't like them - that would be shorter
    Jeez Pumba, I'm sure you're more intelligent than that. I don't think Japanfan was talking about whether or not she likes Domshabs.

    Maybe for you it's not possible to like a team/skater and at the same time have problems with the programs they skate, but for many of us here I imagine it is quite common place

    As for me from all I've read I get the impression both skaters are hard-working, good people. For the last couple of seasons I've not liked their work and was appalled by their "Aboriginal" OD. It doesn't mean I don't like them. It actually means I really really don't like Linichuk. I hated what she gave B&A too. All far too much faux angst for my taste, and the OD a masterpiece of cultural insensitivity.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    ....
    What she said. I totally admire the courage of both Oksana & Max. I still think their OD was appalling, insensitive, and didn't meet the stated folk dance guidelines. However, there's no point beating a dead horse, particularly when the skaters involved are nice, courageous (if culturally clueless) skaters victimized by the choreography of their clueless coach. pumba, that's why no one is talking about it. It's because DomShabs as people are liked.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Jeez Pumba, I'm sure you're more intelligent than that. I don't think Japanfan was talking about whether or not she likes Domshabs.

    Maybe for you it's not possible to like a team/skater and at the same time have problems with the programs they skate, but for many of us here I imagine it is quite common place

    As for me from all I've read I get the impression both skaters are hard-working, good people. For the last couple of seasons I've not liked their work and was appalled by their "Aboriginal" OD. It doesn't mean I don't like them. It actually means I really really don't like Linichuk. I hated what she gave B&A too. All far too much faux angst for my taste, and the OD a masterpiece of cultural insensitivity.
    Believe me, I’m even less intelligent than one may think.
    I just feel totally disinterested when I see long and thoughtful posts in a manner of “you swallow”, with description of Russia (Australia, Uzbekistan, Serbia, Kosovo, Nazi Germany, Japan, put any country) killing off Aleuts (Kirgiz people, Russians, Chinese, Scottish people..put any people ever being oppressed in every single county, which is awful of course!). Probably I had too many History lessons at school, and absorbed too much of it when I was in my teen years, so that now I feel simply comfortable with an idea that there are no saints, and every nation (tribe if you want) has something to be ashamed of (according to the modern P.C. rules, that hardly ever existed before the 20th century, and e.g. Napoleon whose army killed thousands was a romantic hero of his time). This is why my answer to Japanfan was so silly.
    As everyone here I really have no a slightest wish to participate in dead horse beating, and just expressed my opinion that for me the whole particular matter (not indigenous people killing, but the dance itself!) was overblown, and then magically forgotten right after the Games. Sorry but this is how me - an unintelligent and unaware Russian feels.

    And of course D/S are sweet people

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumba View Post
    As everyone here I really have no a slightest wish to participate in dead horse beating, and just expressed my opinion that for me the whole particular matter (not indigenous people killing, but the dance itself!) was overblown, and then magically forgotten right after the Games.
    Others are just expressing their opinions, too--in response to what you said. It's a discussion board; that's what people do.

    If you get to state your opinion, so does everyone else. If you don't want to see topics resurrected, then don't resurrect them. If you DO resurrect them, don't act as if it's the fault of others that the topic has gotten going again and don't perpetuate that discussion by continuing to argue the point while saying that you don't want to argue the point.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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