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  1. #1
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    Two Rivals, Same Coach - One Succeeded, The other... not so much

    Any examples where two rival competitors ended up having the same coach, but from that point onward, there appeared to be a wide gap in success between the rivals?

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    Sasha Cohen and NNN?

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    Maybe there are more examples, but I think in most cases elite skaters will leave for another coach if they feel a rival is receiving more attention, or if they feel any conflicts are hampering their development. (E.g., Yagudin left Mishin for TAT, while Plushy remained).

    So far the coaching situation for ice dancers V/M and D/W hasn't appeared to be a drawback -- it bodes watching now that each team are no longer just up-and-comers, but rivals for the top spot, especially with their ascendancy at Olympics and Worlds, and the retirement of other top teams.

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    IIRC Russian/Soviet Teams of the past may have some examples, although I can't think of any.

    Moskvina coached: Natalia/Artur & Bechke/Petrov
    Moskvina coached: Artur/Oksana & Elena/Anton
    Tat coached: AngelicaKrylova/OlegO & PashaGrishuk/Platov

    In the above cases IMHO no one team seemed to suffer, so perhaps these coaches know how to balance two top teams. I know that K/O left TAT, was it because they felt she was spending too much time with G/P? IF so, I am still not sure this is an example of the original question posed because they were the #2 Ice Dance team in the World. Hardly bad results.

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    Jill Trenary and Caryn Kadavy both had Carlo Fassi as their coach. Caryn did leave Fassi later because of the rivalry between her and Jill.

    Tim and Evan both had Frank for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loopey View Post
    Tat coached: AngelicaKrylova/OlegO & PashaGrishuk/Platov

    In the above cases IMHO no one team seemed to suffer, so perhaps these coaches know how to balance two top teams. I know that K/O left TAT, was it because they felt she was spending too much time with G/P? IF so, I am still not sure this is an example of the original question posed because they were the #2 Ice Dance team in the World. Hardly bad results.
    I even checked the Wiki in case I missed something important . I thought it was Linichuck who coached both couples and G/P left to TAT because of Linichuck's favoritism towards K/O

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    The more interesting version for me is Two rival coaches, one skater - one succeeded, the other... not so much

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    Both Jeremy and Mroz were coached by Tom Z, both placed 1st and 2nd at the 2009 Nats, then Jeremy left Tom and had a very good season, while Mroz...

    But it's too early to write Brandon off

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    Scott Hamilton Vs Scott Cramer

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    Frank Carroll and the Kwan sisters. Didn't the Asada sisters also have the same coach(es) while in Japan, as well as sharing Rafael Artourian?

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    Most coaches have many skaters in their stable and not all can be stars!
    Without fear you cannot find courage

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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Frank Carroll and the Kwan sisters. Didn't the Asada sisters also have the same coach(es) while in Japan, as well as sharing Rafael Artourian?
    Especially in Michelle and Karen's case, can you really consider that rivalry? It was pretty clear who was looking at a shot at the very top of the sport fairly early, and it wasn't a matter of Frank focusing on one over the other. Plus is Mao's sister at or likely to ever reach the degree of success she has?

    I would think in most cases it's nothing to do with sharing a coach, at least when we're talking young singles skaters. Some have more potential than others, some have fewer injuries, some have a different work ethic.

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    I would imagine its really hard for a sibling to watch the other shoot up the ranks while they just kind of...don't. Or even for someone like Emily Hugues who is an actual Olympian but has to be compared to her sister who is the OGM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pumba View Post
    I even checked the Wiki in case I missed something important . I thought it was Linichuck who coached both couples and G/P left to TAT because of Linichuck's favoritism towards K/O
    I think you're right about that, I don't ever recall Tarasova coaching K/0. I've read so many different versions of how exactly it went down. Linichuk claims that G/P willingly left while G/P claim that Linichuk left them in the cold because she was determined to push them into the professional ranks so she could lead K/O to the 98 gold.

    Romanova & Yaroshenko also left Linichuk for somewhat similar reasons, because she was focusing much of her attention on her Russian teams (K/O and L/A) and so they made the move to Tarasova in 97 or 98 if I'm not mistaken.

    I wonder if you could include Natalia Dubova's pupils in this discussion back when she was the premier Soviet ice dance coach. Usova & Zhulin did pretty well for themselves anyways but they were in the company of a technically superiour team in Klimova & Ponomarenko. And then of course Grishuk & Platov overtook them although G/P had already left Dubova when that happened. I might also mention Navka & Gezalian when they were being coached by Dubova (they were her 4th team in 1991 I think). They had very strong programs in 1992, 1993, and 1994 but in 1992, they couldn't even make it to the Olympics or Worlds because of the other 3 strong teams while in 1993 and 1994, they barely made much of an impression on the judges (although I thought they should have placed higher in both 93 and 94).

    1993 Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUW8jr5oc3c

    1994 Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfCPc...eature=related

    Vyacheslav Zagarodnyuk (sp?) did ok for himself but he wasn't nearly as successful as his training mate Viktor Petrenko or Oksana Baiul. I can't think of any other examples off the top of my head.

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    When Carlo Fassi was coaching Curry, Cousins and Hamilton in the mid- to late-70s, he was also coaching a good number of skaters from what I think was pretty much every country in Europe at the time I guess there would have been some rivalries there...
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Frank Carroll and the Kwan sisters.
    I heard that Frank got Karen in order to get Michelle. Danny Kwan did not want them to be apart. Frank was okay with it because Karen was good enough to fit in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    When Carlo Fassi was coaching Curry, Cousins and Hamilton in the mid- to late-70s, he was also coaching a good number of skaters from what I think was pretty much every country in Europe at the time I guess there would have been some rivalries there...
    It made it easier to manipulate the results of a whole competition by politiking for the order of placements of his own skaters because of how the factor placement ordinals worked.

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    imo karen had great potential. although michelle became known for her artistry, I remember in the beginning when they were both competing together karen in particular was commended for her artistry and lyrical arms, while comparatively michelle was supposed to be the athletic one who could land a lot of jumps. karen, being older and soon after moving onto college, probably felt with a younger sibling rising to prominence in the sport and so far ahead of her that she was meant for other things. but I think she did have the potential to be a very good skater in her own right.

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    2 coaches that don't seem to have such issues: Nikolai Morozov and Tom Z.

    Morozov was coaching Shizuka and Miki at the same time for a while right? And also Oda and Takahashi?

    Tom Z. was coaching Abbott and Bradley for a while before Abbott switched and currently he has Flatt and Zawadzki and Gilles, though Alexe is a notch below the other 2 girls at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    2 coaches that don't seem to have such issues: Nikolai Morozov and Tom Z.

    Morozov was coaching Shizuka and Miki at the same time for a while right? And also Oda and Takahashi?

    Tom Z. was coaching Abbott and Bradley for a while before Abbott switched and currently he has Flatt and Zawadzki and Gilles, though Alexe is a notch below the other 2 girls at this point.
    Wasn't Morozov taking on Oda part of the reason why Takahashi left?

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