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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    But her programs were less interesting, IMO. I loved the originality she had at the beginning.
    With Chaikovskaya Maria gained confidence she was lacking while being Kudriavtsev's student. He is a great technical coach, but it looked like he just couldn't find the right words to make Maria feel more confident: sometimes she looked so frightened to be on the ice, I felt sorry for her. I agree that her programs became less interesting, but it might have been Chaikovskaya's strategy to gain consistency with the jumps by having Maria to skate more simple programs with watered down choreo. In the end it did pay off: she won her biggest titles under Chaikovskaya.

  2. #22
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    if you are talking about program with regards to coaches,
    sasha to tat wasn't good, wagner wasn't good, same old same old,
    technique improved under tat disater under sarah's coach
    mao coachless, under tat-programs diaster, technique so-so
    abbott under yuka-disaster,

    for all the coaching changes, the programs don't improve under new coaches they usually stay the same and/or get worse. What should improve under coaching changes is the skaters mental, technique that should improved, but because figure skating in more muscle memory alot of times it doesn't improve and or gets worse.
    it still about the talent and mental ability of the skater not about the coach, and who the judges, and federations are willing to overlook their screwups,
    under michelle no-one over looked her mishaps.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IneZR View Post
    Good:
    - Tanith became more polished and elegant and her leg line improved a lot. Also, I don't think Tanith/Ben's placements would have improved had they stayed with Marina/Igor. The results of 09' Worlds might have looked completely different had they stayed in Shiplband/Zoueva's camp.
    She did but her speed and power throughout the busy sections were dramatically reduced. Depends on what what you think outweighs the other...finer quality 'movements' in exchange for ability to perform more difficult tricks + wow factors. The move was good for their silver in 09, but olympic podium would probably remain the same. (oops i guess this topic has been discussed too much already lol)
    Quote Originally Posted by IneZR View Post
    - Takahashi leaving Morozov: his smartest decision ever!
    Thought he had his best programs with Morozov. Even though his work isn't everyone's taste, i think a skater as talented as Takahashi would have been able to inspire more original ideas from Morozov...

    also, -- i actually think the Siudek's coaching change to Gauthier in '03 was good for them. They had more success that yr before her shoulder injury, and they seemed to have a great working relationship.

  4. #24
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    How about these food-for-thought oldies -

    Rodnina/Zaitzev from Zhuk to Tarasova in the 70s. Good? Bad? Or didn't matter?

    Fratianne electing to stay with FC over politically strong Carlo Fassi [coach of Peggy, Dorothy and John Curry] in 1979. Lost the gold in '80 by a smidge to Poetzsch.

    Tiffany Chin - what a mess! FC to John Nicks to Don Laws back to FC. Who was the best coach for her and who would've taken her the furthest?

    Nicole Bobek- from Richard Callaghan to Carlo Fassi. Good or bad?

    Anyway

    The Good - Mirai to FC from Charlene Wong; Rippon to Orser from Morozov; Yagudin to Tat from Mishin; Goebel to FC from Heiss-Jenkins; Arakawa to Tat from Callaghan; Kwan to Arutunian from Williams; Kwan from coachless to Williams

    The Bad - Cohen to Wagner; Kwan to coachless

    Can't quantify - Abbott from Zakrzajek [sp?] to Sato [too early]; B/A to Linichuk from Shpilband [better skills but dumped by 2009-10 season]; McBru from Sappenfield to Nicks [alas, we will never know]

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    No way. He showed much better choreography and use of music after the switch, not to mention he himself showed much more presence and maturity as a skater.
    He actually had transitions in Troika. His post 98 longs were from one element to another. And they were mostly on movie-soundtrack-hero motifs. The first one (1999) was great; the others were kind like Evan's post Carmen works--same elements to diff. music

  6. #26

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    Tiffany Chin should have stayed with Frank Carroll. He got her to a Jr. World Championship with solid balanced technique in figures and free skating and she was doing the 3A, 3F, 3Lp, 3S, and 3T in practice. Mr. Nicks did will in terms of enhancing her development, but he really only added PIZZAZZ!!! to her skating. Too bad the person in charge of her development always thought the grass was greener elsewhere.

    I also do not think changing to coaches with different technique is advisable, and I think FC's Bostonian-MVO technique was not all that compatible with Mr. Nick's British technique, which is why she declined. By the time she ended up with Don Laws, the mechanics of her jumps were too muttled. One would have thought she never had consistent triples.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-12-2010 at 07:55 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Tiffany Chin should have stayed with Frank Carroll. He got her to a Jr. World Championship with solid balanced technique in figures and free skating and she was doing the 3A, 3F, 3Lp, 3S, and 3T in practice. Mr. Nicks did will in terms of enhancing her development, but he really only added PIZZAZZ!!! to her skating. Too bad the person in charge of her development always thought the grass was greener elsewhere.
    Are you talking about Mama?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by query5 View Post
    abbott under yuka-disaster
    Why would you call this a disaster? I don't think his skills or programs declined under Yuka. While with her, Jeremy won nationals by twenty-five points and got his highest placement at Worlds yet. Yes, he messed up at the Olympics, but he was already known to do poorly at major competitions. I don't think that would have been different if he'd trained with another coach.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Are you talking about Mama?
    Yes, but I am also trying to not be mean . . . What's wrong with me today?
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-12-2010 at 07:59 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockTheTassel View Post
    Why would you call this a disaster? I don't think his skills or programs declined under Yuka. While with her, Jeremy won nationals by twenty-five points and got his highest placement at Worlds yet. Yes, he messed up at the Olympics, but he was already known to do poorly at major competitions. I don't think that would have been different if he'd trained with another coach.
    For realz! Abbott won Skate Canada over Takahashi, had the 2nd highest rated LP at the GPF with the highest TES score, put a beatdown on the reigning World champ and eventual Olympic champ by 25 points, and placed 5th at Worlds under Sato's tutelage. I certainly wouldn't say she hasn't helped him.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    For realz! Abbott won Skate Canada over Takahashi, had the 2nd highest rated LP at the GPF with the highest TES score, put a beatdown on the reigning World champ and eventual Olympic champ by 25 points, and placed 5th at Worlds under Sato's tutelage. I certainly wouldn't say she hasn't helped him.
    Not that I think it is a disaster, but I'd like to point out that before Abbott went to Sato, he won a Grand Prix (Cup of China 2008), GP Final 2008, and US Championship 2009. His season under Sato (2009-2010) was not massively improved from the previous. He won Skate Canada, yes, but was second in the free skate behind Takahashi, who had no quad at the competition. His placement at 2010 Worlds was indeed better. Nevertheless, one should take into consideration that Lysacek was not present, Verner had a horrendous season, and the Japanese skaters with the exception of Takahashi had a meltdown.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Not that I think it is a disaster, but I'd like to point out that before Abbott went to Sato, he won a Grand Prix (Cup of China 2008), GP Final 2008, and US Championship 2009. His season under Sato (2009-2010) was not massively improved from the previous. He won Skate Canada, yes, but was second in the free skate behind Takahashi, who had no quad at the competition. His placement at 2010 Worlds was indeed better. Nevertheless, one should take into consideration that Lysacek was not present, Verner had a horrendous season, and the Japanese skaters with the exception of Takahashi had a meltdown.
    True, however, I think Yuka Sato brought out something in his skating that wasn't there before. I enjoy watching him now, whereas before, I thought he was a little flat.

  13. #33

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    deleted because I have no idea what I'm talking about!

    (at least I'm honest)
    Last edited by centerpt1; 07-12-2010 at 10:49 PM.

  14. #34
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    Yu-na Kim to Orser - she was able to live up to her talent and stay off injuries for the most part.

    Shizuka to Tarasova - she won her world title and while her following season was a disaster, that was from her lack of motivation

    Shizuka to Morozov - the partnership was relatively short but he was able to get her to peak at the Torino.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Johnny Weir changed coaches and it RUINED HIM. He was deceived by those pseudo-Russians . . . I still do not get how they got him to believe that what Viktor and Oksana did was good when it was complete EMPTY sh@#.
    If the COP rewards transitions and difficult jump entries, why would Johnny train with those that did not do them, did not know how to do them, and therefore could not teach them.
    Furthermore, Johnny's technique was better than Viktor's technique before he switched. All Galina and Viktor taught Johnny was be as inconsistent as Viktor and act like posing on the ice was MIFTs (now known as a transitions) just like Viktor.

    So who should had Johnny gone to? He couldn't stay with Priscilla, he no longer listened to her.

  16. #36

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    ^ TARASOVA. It would have been expensive for Johnny, but it would also not have been a cheap substitute.

  17. #37
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    Love Tarasova

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallcolor View Post
    ^ita. Johnny Weir is better than the old-school, empty programs given to him, Galina was interested mainly in developing his skating skills, lines, and making him a polished skater- but the problem is, he already excelled at these aspects even before he even went to her. Her goal was probably to make a Baiul out of him. Extremely COP-unfriendly.Great accomplishment by winning first/only world medal in 08, but it wasn’t Galina’s coaching or Anissina’s choreo that got him there, but Takahashi, who did one extra combo jump too many.

    Bad- Sasha leaving Tarasova
    Good- Yagudin leaving Mishin for Tarasova/Morozov
    I totally agree. I love what TATdid for Sasha, Yag's. Arakawa and even Mao. I think that a lot of people dont like that Tarasova likes bold, fiery, robustand sometimes dark music. With Cohen, she did wonders. Sasha's jumps were better, tighter and she was amazingly trained. Tarasova cant fix the psychological side. Also, she packaged Shizuka extremely well.

  18. #38
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    TAT brought out the best in Kulik and Yagudin, I am sure she could have done the same to Weir. But Weir probably wouldn't fully listen to her either. Didn't she want him to skate to Liebstraum in 2006? Instead he chose to take inspiration from Slutskaya's trashy "feed the chicken" program, before finally falling back to Otonal

    Like Galina, TAT would probably focus on having Weir go clean, but I am sure she could have added some fire and some highlight to his skating too. You gotta admit, as trashy as his recent Olympic outfits were, the actual skating was very dull.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indra486 View Post
    Shizuka to Tarasova - she won her world title and while her following season was a disaster, that was from her lack of motivation
    Richard Callahan always get the short end of the stick when it comes to Shizuka's World title. IMO, he deserves way more credit than TT for this.


    Shizuka to Morozov - the partnership was relatively short but he was able to get her to peak at the Torino.
    But Shizuka didn't peak at Torino. Peaking means that she skated her best. She didn't. It was adequate to get the job done when the favorites imploded but it did not compare to her 2004 World winning performance.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Like Galina, TAT would probably focus on having Weir go clean, but I am sure she could have added some fire and some highlight to his skating too. You gotta admit, as trashy as his recent Olympic outfits were, the actual skating was very dull.
    All the programs TAT did for Johnny were is every way superior to the cramp after 2005-06.

    ETA: Even this long abandoned program has a look and feel that makes me feel like I am watching JOHNNY WEIR

    Johnny Weir 2005 Japan International Challenge LP

    Johnny Weir - US Nats 2006 - LP Selections by Maksim Mrvica
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-13-2010 at 04:29 AM.

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