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  1. #1

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    Coaching changes for better or worse?

    The Kostner thread in GSD made me think about this.

    What are the examples that come to mind for you of skaters changing coaches later in their careers. Did it turn out for the better, worse, or not make much difference?
    Last edited by The Accordion; 07-12-2010 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Poor English

  2. #2

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    Changing to Frank Carroll did a great deal of good for Tim Goebel and Evan Lysacek (IMO)

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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Changing to Frank Carroll did a great deal of good for Tim Goebel and Evan Lysacek (IMO)
    Don't forget Mirai, she showed great improvement and I only think she will get better.

    I think a better question is skaters who may have done better by changing a coach period.
    Without fear you cannot find courage

  4. #4

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    Johnny Weir changed coaches and it RUINED HIM. He was deceived by those pseudo-Russians . . . I still do not get how they got him to believe that what Viktor and Oksana did was good when it was complete EMPTY sh@#.

    If the COP rewards transitions and difficult jump entries, why would Johnny train with those that did not do them, did not know how to do them, and therefore could not teach them.

    Furthermore, Johnny's technique was better than Viktor's technique before he switched. All Galina and Viktor taught Johnny was be as inconsistent as Viktor and act like posing on the ice was MIFTs (now known as a transitions) just like Viktor.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-12-2010 at 01:28 AM.

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    ^ita. Johnny Weir is better than the old-school, empty programs given to him, Galina was interested mainly in developing his skating skills, lines, and making him a polished skater- but the problem is, he already excelled at these aspects even before he even went to her. Her goal was probably to make a Baiul out of him. Extremely COP-unfriendly.Great accomplishment by winning first/only world medal in 08, but it wasn’t Galina’s coaching or Anissina’s choreo that got him there, but Takahashi, who did one extra combo jump too many.

    Bad- Sasha leaving Tarasova
    Good- Yagudin leaving Mishin for Tarasova/Morozov

  6. #6

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    Yagudin was a totally different skater under Tarasova and so much for the better. I loved his Lawrence of Arabia FS.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    Agree Weir switching was bad Yags to TAT was great.


    Kwan going coachless was a disaster, liked her under atruntian and Mao was great under him too.

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    Yag's long programs after he switched were more or less the same except they're to diff. music. His shorts were great though.

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    I quite liked Yagudin's Broken Arrow free skate. It was far more expressive and distinctive than anything he had done before.

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    Kwan leaving Carroll during the 2002 Olympic season wasn't a great choice. For me, I never found her skating post break-up to be quite as good as it was pre break-up. I can't help but believe that if he had been her coach heading into the 2002 Olympics, he would have had her in the same brilliant athletic form she was in at the 2000 and 2001 World Championships.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Yag's long programs after he switched were more or less the same except they're to diff. music. His shorts were great though.
    No way. He showed much better choreography and use of music after the switch, not to mention he himself showed much more presence and maturity as a skater.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Yag's long programs after he switched were more or less the same except they're to diff. music. His shorts were great though.
    Yag's had great SPs under the team of TT AND Morosov. Seeing how sucky TT's works have been for other skaters after Morosov left her team make me believe that Morosov was solely responsible for all of Yag's best programs.

    Michael Weiss's move to Don Laws from Audrey Weisiger didn't help him any. His 3A and 4T were hopelesslly unfixable by then and then there was the matter of the wife's choreographies . He won his 3rd National title under Laws pretty much by default.

    Trenary went to Carol Heiss after Fassi and was kaput. The same for Kadavy after she left Fassi.

    Tiffany Chin parting ways with John Nicks was not good for her.

    Then there was Nicole Bobek who bounced from coach to coach...

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    No way. He showed much better choreography and use of music after the switch, not to mention he himself showed much more presence and maturity as a skater.
    I agree - the change from 98 to 99 was amazing. It was like a totally different skater.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  14. #14

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    - Arakawa to Callaghan was good.
    - Yags to Tat was good.
    - Obertas/Slavnov to Moskvina not good.
    - Nikodinov to Callaghan not good.
    - Kwan to self/dad, not good.
    - Cohen to Wagner not good.
    - Cohen to TAT was good.
    - Asada to TAT not good.
    - Abbott to Yuka Sato ???? Not sure what to say about this.


    And off topic, (perhaps this deserves a new thread), but skaters that might have actually benefited from switching coaches but didn't IMO include:
    - Zhang/Zhang (so much potential)
    - Dube/Davison (still waiting for this)
    - Rachel Flatt

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    Good:
    - Butyrskaya leaving Kudriavtsev for Chaikovskaya: Maria really improved under her coaching. She became more consistent and flourished as a performer.

    - Belbin/Agosto leaving Shpilband/Zoueva and switching to Linichuk/Karponosov: I know a lot of people would disagree with me on this, but IMHO it was a good move for them. I didn't always like choreography Linichuk gave to them (although Ave Maria was gorgeous ), Tanith before Linichuk and Tanith circa 09-10 are two absolutely different skaters. Tanith became more polished and elegant and her leg line improved a lot. Also, I don't think Tanith/Ben's placements would have improved had they stayed with Marina/Igor. The results of 09' Worlds might have looked completely different had they stayed in Shiplband/Zoueva's camp. They might have been surpassed not only by V/M, but also by D/W and even P/B.

    - Pechalat/Bourzat leaving Zazoui for Zhulin: I am not sure what was the situation in Zazou's camp, maybe Nathalie/Fabian felt like they weren't getting enough attention as Delobel/Schoenfelder were clearly Zazou's No 1 priority, but I like the changes Zhulin made to them. They started skating with more speed and matured as a couple.

    - Mirai Nagasu switching to Frank Carroll: she made a huge progress with Frank. She is still so young and I am sure her big titles are yet to come.

    - Takahashi leaving Morozov: his smartest decision ever!

    BAD:
    - Obertas/Slavnov switching from Velikovs to Moskvina: with all my respect to Tamara as a coach, to this day I think that she ruined this pair. Suddenly Julia's jumps were gone, she wasn't as consistent on the throws as she was before, plus horrible choreography they simply couldn't perform well - aaah, what a waste of talent!

    - Sasha going to Wagner

    - Mao switching to Tarasova: I hated the choreography TAT gave to Mao, hated the costumes, hated to see Mao looking so miserable in the kiss-and-cry after disastrous skate at Cup of Russia. They just weren't a good match.

  16. #16

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    obviously: Kim to Orser=great

    Gritschuk Platov from Duboba to Lininschuk also great

  17. #17
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    Totmianina/Marinin leaving Pavlova for Vasiliev helped them obtain the qualities (amazing consistency, quality of jumps, emotional stability) that completed with their natural elegenace, perfect lines and physical beauty lead them to the Olys gold.
    After reading the numerous ambiguous interviews of all three parties one may think that Mukhortova/Trankov's partnership under Vasiliev was a total disaster, but I'd say that was definitely for better. At least they got an unvalued experience that will help them a lot even after they broke up.
    As for Obertas/Slavnov - surely their collaboration with Moskvina was a disaster, but seems like Tamara Moskvina compensated this failure with Kawaguti/Smirnov, who basically perfom in the same style as O/S.
    Seems like working with Moskvina did not help Borzenkova/Chuviliaev either.
    And I wish a coach like Vasiliev for the Zhangs. There is no way they'll progress under Bin Yao.
    Grischuk/Platov's, Klimova/Ponomarenko's, Kulik's move to Tarasova was also great.

  18. #18
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    Methinks whether a coach switch is successful has a lot to do with the skater him/her/themselves, especially the age, maturity, and rationale for the switch. Sometimes a coach may be fantastic for one skater but disastrous for another, and one has to look at the skater (and, sometimes, her mother/father) for the cause.

  19. #19

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    Kwan from self/dad to Scott Williams was good. And very attractive.
    "Liking this sport is ridiculous, so you’re a little different for liking it, she explained. But you’re allowed to like what you like." - Robert Samuels

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by IneZR View Post
    Good:
    - Butyrskaya leaving Kudriavtsev for Chaikovskaya: Maria really improved under her coaching. She became more consistent and flourished as a performer.
    But her programs were less interesting, IMO. I loved the originality she had at the beginning.

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