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  1. #1

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    1984 Pairs Olympic Podium-Long Programs

    Elena Valova and Oleg Vasiliev 1984 Olympics LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdYWPdbL7s

    Kitty & Peter Carruthers 1984 Olympics LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5agtpQats8M

    Selezneva & Makarov (URS) -1984 Sarajevo, Pairs' Long Program
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7wSsNCxS_M


    Major Gold Medal coach Vasiliev

    Because of all I saw of Carruthers on Universal Sports doing commetary wanted to see his performance!

    Also parents of Ksenia Makarova won Bronze

    V/V had good tech and greater artistry

    Carruthers had good tech and medium artistry

    S/M good music but sloppy

    The talk about the Carruthers doing a throw quad salchow! In 1984?!?

    All judges went for V/V! Feel Carruthers underscored tech overscored artistic

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    IMO, The Carruthers should have won. But politics being what it was (and is), as only the 4th ranked pair in the world coming into the event, the favourites were Valova and Vassiliev. This competition began Tamara Moskvina's reign as a master promotor and politician as well.

    Good that Underhill & Martini, who were co-favourites for the gold, came back to skate so well (and win) a few weeks later in Ottawa after performing so poorly here.

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    Carruthers were good-no doubt about that! The Japanese judge really hated them for some reason!

    I guess Underhill and Martini just had bad Olympic jitters.

    Also the debut of Lloyd Eisler!

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    80s hair and costumes were just so bad.

    Split twists used to be soooooooooooo tiny.

    I too think that the Carruthers should have won.

    Wow, for a Russian pair, S&M were supremely sloppy. They look like they skated with a lot of power and some good speed though. Seriously overscored if you ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post

    I guess Underhill and Martini just had bad Olympic jitters.
    There was quite a bit of talk about Barbara Underhill's beige skates being a problem. It may have been an actual problem or psychological one - but she changed back to her white boots for Worlds and it seemed to do the trick whatever the cause!

    That was a magical night at Worlds in 84!And in those days with all the ordinals and the top teams being so close - people in the arena generally didn't know who won until people at the end saw the order of the flags for the victory ceremony. Then quite a roar made its way around the crowd!

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    Based on what were Underhill & Martini co-favorites for the gold? They had won only 1 world medal- a bronze, and had been injured and not done any competitions since those Worlds. I know some felt they should have won the 83 Worlds but since they werent even really close to doing so in the end, that isnt anything that would make them favorites. If anything Baess & Theirbach were co-favorites for the gold based on the results of the past 3 seasons.

    I dont agree the Carruthers should have won at all. I was never a big fan of Valova & Vasiliev but their program was far more difficult and they only had one real mistake. A team that wasnt even favored to medal would need to deliver the knockout punch to win and the Carruthers IMO certainly didnt do that, even though it was the best they had probably ever skated. The Carruthers were clearly the only top pair who skated their very best and were rewarded for that with a silver medal when they would have finished about 5th had everyone done what they were capable of doing.

    I agree Selezneva & Makarov were overscored at this particular event, but would be underscored the remainder of their careers. I would have given Baess & Theirbach the bronze even with their mistakes in both programs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudy_Gumdrops View Post
    80s hair and costumes were just so bad.
    LOL, I agree but in 20 years, we will probably say the same about 2000s !

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    Overall the podium was correct. The Carruthers were far too weak as individual skaters to win gold over V/V. Their program didn't have nearly the content that V/V's did. S/M most definitely deserved bronze over B/T. Their SP was wonderful and their LP was good enough. B/T didn't skate all that well in either program really. Disappointing SP with him popping the loop and the LP wasn't good enough to make the podium IMO.

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    IMO, the pecking order going into Sarajevo was -

    1. Valova/Vasiliev - Defending World Champs. They were a great pair but were buttressed by the Soviet Fed. which had a monopoly on the gold in Olympic Pairs

    2. Baess/Thierbach - '81 and '83 World Runner-ups and '82 World Champs. They were quite athletic. IIRC, they did 3 throw jumps to win '82 Worlds and had a lot of history

    I honestly feel the intl. judges didn't care which NA team came after - Underhill/Martini or Carruthers'. Both had about the same history - each pair had a bronze at Worlds. Even as an American, I thought U/M had better skills but Carruthers' always did well internationally.

    I think the dark horse was Selezneva/Makarov. IIRC, during the broadcast in Sarajevo it was stated that S/M were the most talented USSR team, but they had no history going into Sarajevo. I think they were injured at the time of the '83 Worlds., but this all off the top of my head. Additionally, they never seemed really consistent and I'm not sure the Soviet Fed. had a lot of love for them.

    EVeryone else was significantly behind these 5 teams IMO -#2 GDR pair, Birgit Lorenz/Knut Schubert whom I believe medalled once at Euros and #2 US pair Jill Watson with then-partner cutie Burt Lancon [whatever happened to him]

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    It looks like Selezneva/Makarov were never at Euros or worlds until after the Olympics they won bronze at. They got all the Gold Medalists right but sports illustrated predicted for Pairs V/V then Baess/Theirbach-EG, then bronze Underhill/ Martini-Can. And their dark horse was not even the silver or bonze medalists but Lorenz/Schubet-East Germany.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    It looks like Selezneva/Makarov were never at Euros or worlds until after the Olympics they won bronze at. They got all the Gold Medalists right but sports illustrated predicted for Pairs V/V then Baess/Theirbach-EG, then bronze Underhill/ Martini-Can. And their dark horse was not even the silver or bonze medalists but Lorenz/Schubet-East Germany.
    Lorenz/Schubert is a team that did fairly well in a short period of time results-wise but they never really had what I'd call a high profile. They were technically solid but

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    I guess with each couple skating clean V/V would have won anyway. They had the best skills and one of the most difficult programmes. Baes/Tierbach would have been in 2nd, with 2-3 Soviet teams, the 2nd EG, the Canadian and the US couples competing for the bronze.
    The Carruthers skated their best, while V/V showed a solid, but not the best performance they could, which still was enough to win fairly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Based on what were Underhill & Martini co-favorites for the gold? They had won only 1 world medal- a bronze, and had been injured and not done any competitions since those Worlds. I know some felt they should have won the 83 Worlds but since they werent even really close to doing so in the end, that isnt anything that would make them favorites. If anything Baess & Theirbach were co-favorites for the gold based on the results of the past 3 seasons.
    It's going to give me tremendous pleasure to upload a scan I've made from an article by my friend, and colleague, Sandra Stephenson, with a preview of the Sarejevo Olympics.

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    There is also a cute video of pairs medal ceremony (in good quality). Vassiliev looks soooo different here, I could barely recognize him!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beWbi...eature=related

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I guess Underhill and Martini just had bad Olympic jitters.
    Not so much jitters as it was Barb's boot problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Accordion View Post
    There was quite a bit of talk about Barbara Underhill's beige skates being a problem. It may have been an actual problem or psychological one - but she changed back to her white boots for Worlds and it seemed to do the trick whatever the cause!
    It was boot problems, but the color wasn't the issue, as she used beige boots for Worlds also. She had new boots for 1984 Olympics which did not work for her, so she attached her new blades to her old boots for Worlds, and the rest is history. Electrifying performance and my favorite Concerto in F performance ever.

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    Placements were fair, but I would have put Baess/Thierbach’s LP in 3rd place, and Selezneva/Makarov’s LP in 4th, there would be a tie, and Baess/Thierbach would have gotten bronze. B/T were cleaner in other areas of their skating than S/M.

    If everyone skated clean, my podium would be V/V and B/T in the top 2 for sure, with U/M finishing 3rd. S/M and the Carruthers would fight for 4-5th place.

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    If everyone had skated cleanly I would have gone with:

    1. Underhill & Martini
    2. Baess & Theirbach
    3. Valova & Vasiliev- great pair but wierd program musically and choreographically
    4. Selezneva & Makarov
    5. Carruthers


    However I suspect if everyone had skated cleanly in both programs the judges placings would have been:

    1. Valova & Vasiliev
    2. Baess & Theirbach
    3. Underhill & Martini
    4. Selezneva & Makarov
    5. Carruthers


    How I had the placings with how they all did actually skate:

    1. Valova & Vasiliev- clearly. Sorry I like the Carruthers but V&V even just a bit off are superior technically and artisticlaly to the Carruthers at their best.

    2. Carruthers- reward for being the only top pair to skate 2 clean programs.

    3. Baess & Theirbach- even with their problems their overall skate was better than the 2nd Russians IMO. I dont see how they lost out to both to Carruthers and S&M on the 2nd mark.

    4. Selezneva & Makarov

    8. Underhill & Martini- sorry their performances in Sarajevo sucked, especialy their long. They were lucky to even end up as top Canadian pair.

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    Like i mentioned above, i think Valova/Vassilev and Baess/Thierbach should have been top 2 if they were clean. Why not? They were the best 2 pairs at that event. Artistically the most polished, but even more so, technically, their elements were the hardest. V/V's solo 3t and B/T's throw 3loop should have given them the edge on the first mark.

    and of course, U/M in 3rd place. Not sure why they should have deserved first even if clean.

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    I think U/M wuold have deserved 1st if clean since all their elements outside the jumps were superior to Valova & Vasiliev; and their elements outside the jumps and throw were superior to B/T. B/T were not considered that strong on the 2nd mark, they were always more a technical team. V/V were overrated on the 2nd mark at that point, their program was a mish mash of strange music and choreography. At the 83 Worlds when all 3 skated well many people felt Underhill & Martini were robbed of the gold.

  20. #20

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    Is it weird to say this is the thread I was hoping for when I posted this topic?!? So much good info!!!!

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