Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 154
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    298
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Mark Mitchell at 92 USN

    Was just watching his 92 Worlds LP performance and was wowed by it. He skated a new program since USN to Strauss that was elegant, musical, and a complete program.
    So I went back to the USN program to see what went wrong. Well, I think he was undermarked, but he used his (tired) old On the Waterfront program, that IMO just didn't 'sing'. I think that if he had skated Strauss at USN he most certainly would have been placed over Paul Wylie in the LP since Paul had one problem after another in his LP. The only thing Paul had over Mark IMO was the program. It's just a shame that Mark decided to keep that OTW program. It never showed off his elegance and musicality to his best.
    Anyone think if he'd done Strauss at USN with his same content as at USN he would have easily placed over Wylie and then gone to Albertville? I wonder if Mark ever thought about it.
    I'll post both YT programs, though the quality is terrible.
    USN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZCU0...eature=related
    Worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9lZ7...eature=related

    ETA: When you watch both Mitchell's and Wylie's SP and LPs at 92 USN and compare the two, it almost seems unconsionable that Mark was passed over. Wylie was a mess in both programs. And Mark only had a botched 3toe on the end of a 3flip-3toe combo. Wylie I don't think even did a combination in his LP. Just horrible judging.
    Last edited by IceKween; 05-31-2010 at 05:41 PM.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    In my eatin' dress
    Posts
    908
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I think you got it right at the end: Mark skated better than Paul, and Paul was put ahead of Mark. I'm not sure there's much that could have helped Mark (e.g. a different program), as he already skated better than Paul. The mistake is to think people were judging based on performance rather than based on who they wanted to send to Olympics.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    So much for the poor Paul wuzrobbed in Albertville cries (which btw I never thought he was anyway). He didnt even deserve to be at the Olympics in the first place. He and his fans should be blessed with his silver medal.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7,580
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    Was just watching his 92 Worlds LP performance and was wowed by it. He skated a new program since USN to Strauss that was elegant, musical, and a complete program.
    Mark's skating fit so nicely in an effervescent, waltzing program, the Strauss was perfect for his style.

    And his lower back and shoulders were just

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Miami, FL, USA
    Posts
    6,921
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    1993 Worlds

    He had such beautiful lines, carriage, posture and musicality. It's a shame this performance at '93 Worlds fizzled [but not as horrendous as I remembered]:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=536Yz...eature=related

    I think if he had used this opportunity to break-through, he would've been held in greater stead by the USFSA. Where was he at '94 Nats?

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Where was he at '94 Nats?
    Mostly on the ice with his butt.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    9,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Mark's skating was all elegance but no pizazz.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    298
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Mark was an elegant skater. Yeah, the pizzazz thing bothered me, but I think he really came into his own with that Strauss waltz and the following year's Don Quixote. It brought out everything he was great at. His long legs are just wonderful, and he knew how to place them.
    I think the problem with him was he wasn't a strong jumper, and except for Strauss and Quixote his programs were rather blah. 1n 1994 he went back to a boring program to (I think) Summertime that really was a hundred steps back from his programs the previous year. In the meantime Scott Davis was landing jump after jump and had the 'perky' or pizzazz thing going. I'd rather watch Mark Mitchell skate all day then spend a minute watching Scott Davis.
    It would be interesting to see how Mitchell would have placed in Albertville had he gone clean. Again it goes back to the program, and the OTW program just wasn't a good vehicle for him. Half of it was discordant and alienating.
    Oh well, still a fan after 20 years.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,725
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    Oh well, still a fan after 20 years.
    Same here. Mark is my fave male skater (well, tied with Kurt).

    I loved loved loved Don Quixote, but THIS program is TO. DIE. FOR. It showcases everything that's wonderful about Mark and his skating--flawless line and attention to detail, elegance, gracefulness. Just stunning.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Age
    38
    Posts
    17,612
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    So much for the poor Paul wuzrobbed in Albertville cries (which btw I never thought he was anyway). He didnt even deserve to be at the Olympics in the first place. He and his fans should be blessed with his silver medal.
    Non sequitur. Whether or not Paul "deserved" to be there had nothing to do with how he was judged once he was there. (For the record, though, I'm not a wuzrobber in this case. I'd love it if Paul could have won gold at the Olympics, but I can accept that he was outjumped by Viktor.)

    On another note . . . how startling to remember that there was a time when Uncle Dick's commentary was concise and to the point. Those were the days.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    NY/NJ
    Posts
    4,924
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    29556
    Interesting.... I thought most of the wuzrobbing for Mark centered around the fact that the third Olympic spot was given to Todd Eldredge, who sat out U.S. Nationals due to a bad back, and then he did badly at the Olympics and blamed it on his injury?
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Todd earned the U.S 3 spots in the first place though. If he felt he was healthy enough to compete he deserved to go. The team should have been Bowman, Eldredge, and Mitchell. Mitchell actually should have been the U.S Champion that year over Bowman IMHO.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,130
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Mark Mitchell "losing" to Paul Wylie at 92 US Nationals was, for sure, once of the worst judging decisions I've ever seen at a skating competition. Never should have happened. Mitchell clearly outskated Wylie there. Wylie had 2 bad performances in Orlando.

    Eldredge deserved his spot on the olympic team. He had gotten the medal at worlds the year before enabling the US to get 3 men for 92. Everyone that year wanted to see Todd go to Olympics.

    Bowman was most definitely a deserving winner in Orlando. He skated a flawless LP to win the event.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Bowman didnt do a triple axel though IIRC. That is why I would have gone with Mark. A triple axel was needed at the Games and that is the message I would have wanted to deliver to the top U.S men. Either way no way Mark should have been left off the team. Jon Jackson in his book admits that the result was fixed basically.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Dashing Between Bennetton and Krispy Kreme
    Posts
    2,447
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I was in Orlando and remember seeing Eldredge skate in practice. He wasn't even attempting the triple axel. In his sp runthroughs before withdrawing, Todd was doing the 3lutz/3toe and footwork into the 3loop.

    Based on his bronze medal from worlds the previous year, I understand sending him to the games for the sake of the team.

    I agree with jj27 that Mitchell should have won. He clearly had the most technical content, landing a 3axel in both the short and long. OTW was a more cohesive performance than Bowman's jarring music cuts.

    Bowman however, did have a strong track record that season, having won Skate America over Barna (4th in Munich) and Eldredge (3rd).

    What surprised me was choosing Wylie over Mitchell.

    Yes, he was an elegant skater, but he was 20th in the short in Munich, before rallying back to 11th. Mark was a consistant athlete to that point, having beaten Paul a number of times. Most significantly, were his win at the 1989 Olympic Festival, and almost beating Kurt Browning at Skate America '89 for bronze.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I guess in the end it worked out since Wylie's career would have been over in every sense of the World if he finished 3rd at those Nationals as he should have and thus missed the team (of course Eldredge was getting the bye over him as well). Even admited he never would have any professional career had Albertville never happened, he would have just done to Harvard immediately as planned originally. We would have missed out on all those great years of pro skating from Paul.

    As for Mark I am not sure it would have made a big difference for him other than getting a chance to be at the Olympics. I dont think he would have medaled in Albertville, you would have seen Barna now probably getting silver and Bowman bronze. I dont think it would have made a big picture to him failing to medal at a Worlds, getting passed by Davis in the U.S in the enusing years either, or failing to ever win U.S Nationals or make the 94 Olympic team. He was always sort of destined for a career of underachievement alot like Nikidinov.

    Of course that is all in hindsight.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,731
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    17034
    I like Mark's skating, great choreography and field moves, but his jumps were rather low. When I saw his 3Lz it reminded me of Kate Thompson's 3Lz circa 1983-84.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,731
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    17034
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCrunch View Post
    Everyone that year wanted to see Todd go to Olympics.
    Lots of people wanted a lot for Todd, more than my stomach can take quite frankly, and after 3 Olympic berths there was never any Olympic medals and only one World Championship in a floundering field. Perhaps there was nobody better, but there was also not any reason to hold anybody else back either. Hell, Timothy Goebel was being coached by Frank Carroll post-CHJ and actually landing 3 quads in a program while Todd was well past his prime and the USFSA still wanted to dump Tim upon the return of TODD ELDREDGE

    I used to get the same feeling when thinking about Lysacek post-2006 Olympics, but at least he delivered winning sets of programs according to the current rules.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 06-02-2010 at 03:54 AM.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Phila., PA
    Posts
    3,682
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Lots of people wanted a lot for Todd, more than my stomach can take quite frankly, and after 3 Olympic berths there was never any Olympic medals and only one World Championship in a floundering field. Perhaps there was nobody better, but there was also not any reason to hold anybody else back either. Hell, Timothy Goebel was actually landing 3 quads in a program and the USFSA still wanted to dump him for TODD ELDREDGE

    I used to get the same feeling when thinking about Lysacek post-2006 Olympics, but at least he delivered winning sets of programs according to the current rules.

    Why don't you get over your resentment of Todd already? You've done this time and time again! I wish he had won an Olympic medal (and I feel the same way for Kurt). Apart from the lack of that Olympic medal, he has had a distinguished career (6 US titles, 5 Skate America Titles, 6 world medals, etc.), with many performances earning standing ovations. That's not chicken feed. quads are not everything, either. Give me balanced skating anyday!

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,731
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    17034
    Quote Originally Posted by paskatefan View Post
    Why don't you get over your resentment of Todd already? You've done this time and time again! I wish he had won an Olympic medal (and I feel the same way for Kurt). Apart from the lack of that Olympic medal, he has had a distinguished career (6 US titles, 5 Skate America Titles, 6 world medals, etc.), with many performances earning standing ovations. That's not chicken feed. quads are not everything, either. Give me balanced skating anyday!
    Give me Kurt Browning (the 1st Quad and 4 World Championships), Tim Goebel (2 Types of Quads, 3 Quads in a program, and an Olympic Medal) and a gorgeously choreographed Matt Savoie over a boring Todd Eldredge. Hell, give me interesting low jumping Mark Mitchell and flutzing Galindo . . .

    . . . Even when the Red Sea was parted for Eldredge, he still did not know how to walk through a la Lysacek, who is a far more balanced skater IMHO even if he is obsessed with Mediterranean masculine figures as much as Eldredge was obscessed with Anglo-Saxon noblemen.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 06-02-2010 at 04:19 AM.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •