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  1. #41

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    If it is cheated, I think it is less than 1/4 for sure. Maybe like 1/16 .

    I have to say that I was shocked at how easy the jump looked. She didn't seem to be moving particularly fast going in to it so I was floored when she came out of it so smooth. Maybe the smoothness is tricking me in to believing it wasn't cheated.

    I wonder, though, how many 12-14 year old skaters are going injure themselves severely trying to learn a triple axle now.
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadask8er View Post
    there is no way that jump is cheated. that much of a powerful running edge after the jump and the flow coming out of the jump is not what happens with a clean jump. cheated jumps tend to curl around a lot more or lack that kind of flow...

    what a great triple axel!!! is she age eligible for seniors next year? how long will it be before shes in senior?
    I watched it in the slow motion and think it was about 1/8 but not more, so she would get full credit for that and positive GOE.
    Liza will be eligible for seniors only in 2012-2013 season, this season we will see her at JGP and next season she will be eligible for senior Grand Prix

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadask8er View Post
    there is no way that jump is cheated. that much of a powerful running edge after the jump and the flow coming out of the jump is not what happens with a clean jump. cheated jumps tend to curl around a lot more or lack that kind of flow...

    what a great triple axel!!! is she age eligible for seniors next year? how long will it be before shes in senior?
    She is born December 1996, so she is eligible for JGP this season, then in 2011-2012 she can do SGP but not Worlds and Euros, in 2012-2013 she will be fully eligible for all senior international competitions.

    What a great jump, that really is up to the standard of Midori's. She's so little though, I just have to wonder if a growth spurt will hanker her progress.

    http://photo.fsonline.ru/main.php?g2_itemId=23668
    Anna and Adelina are pretty small girls and they still tower over Liza.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    She is born December 1996, so she is eligible for JGP this season, then in 2011-2012 she can do SGP but not Worlds and Euros, in 2012-2013 she will be fully eligible for all senior international competitions.

    What a great jump, that really is up to the standard of Midori's. She's so little though, I just have to wonder if a growth spurt will hanker her progress.

    http://photo.fsonline.ru/main.php?g2_itemId=23668
    Anna and Adelina are pretty small girls and they still tower over Liza.
    While it was a really beautiful jump, I don't think it's in the same standard of Midori's. Not yet, anyway.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    While it was a really beautiful jump, I don't think it's in the same standard of Midori's. Not yet, anyway.
    Midori's had an incredible spring to it that I haven't seen from another female competitor.

    I have to say, though, this was really pretty in the air. I was honestly expecting some raggedy triple axle when I went to watch the video.
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    While it was a really beautiful jump, I don't think it's in the same standard of Midori's. Not yet, anyway.
    Allow me to correct myself, I meant to say that it has the potential to become Midori-worthy by the time she is a senior lady. Midori's 3a was at it's best during her 20s, so Liza's will probably get more spring and power as she gets bigger.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadask8er View Post
    there is no way that jump is cheated. that much of a powerful running edge after the jump and the flow coming out of the jump is not what happens with a clean jump. cheated jumps tend to curl around a lot more or lack that kind of flow...
    It is cheated. A bit under 1/4. I would take a screenshot for you to prove it, if I had the video downloaded to my computer but don't know how to download it from YouTube (and can't be arsed to go to all the trouble of finding out how to and doing it ).

    A lot of cheated jumps manage to get good flow out actually. Provided the cheat is slight and not major obviously.

    Look at Yu-Na Kim's triple lutz/triple toe combinations, for example. Or Mao Asada's triple axels (some of them not all of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn_girl View Post
    I watched it in the slow motion and think it was about 1/8 but not more, so she would get full credit for that and positive GOE.
    Even though GOE should be reduced for cheated jumps. /sigh

    It's such a pet peeve of mine.

    I'd give her +1 for the good exit and decent flow and -1 for the cheat equalling 0 GOE.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 07-11-2010 at 03:17 AM.

  8. #48

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    It is cheated. A little bit under 1/4. I
    I don't think jumps that are within the correct range can be called cheated. Its not an exact science. That jump is big, and controlled.

    I have to say, though, this was really pretty in the air. I was honestly expecting some raggedy triple axle when I went to watch the video.
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    She's a Mishin student, I can't ever see him letting a student display a raggedy jump. He's got a reputation to withhold. Frankly the fact above is the good thing about Eliza, she has very good jumping technique, and that's going to withhold her in very good stead as she grows.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I don't think jumps that are within the correct range can be called cheated. Its not an exact science. That jump is big, and controlled.
    Everything that isn't fully rotated is cheated. Or under-rotated. Or whatever other word you want to use. But it's just arguing about semantics.

    If you look at the GOE marking criteria, jumps which aren't fully rotated should be penalised.

    That refers to all the jumps, which aren't fully rotated, and not just the ones that get downgraded.

    The majority of skaters fully rotate their jumps when they land them. It would be nice if they got rewarded for that.

  10. #50
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    Thanks to Ozzisk8tr, I've found out how to download YouTube clips (YAY!) and I have taken some pictures.

    Unfortunately the video quality is very poor so they are not particularly clear.

    Slow-mo on Media Player Classic is very limited too (anyone knows a program with better slo-mo? - I wish I could have access to the same kind of equipment the Technical Panel does ).

    http://img101.imageshack.us/g/3axellanding1.jpg/

    Picture 1 - I think she's still in the air, might have touched the ice already though
    Picture 2 - I think she's touched the ice already, might be still in the air though
    Picture 3 - she's definitely landed by then

  11. #51
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    No wonder why Ziggy has been rather mellow lately. Too exhausted from the hard work to call my favorite skaters boring or nerdy.

  12. #52

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    That was really good and there was something I really liked about the way she moved over the ice. I think she has tons of potential. From the video she already seems a little taller than most jumping beans so maybe she will just fill out and not get a lot taller, similar to the way Kwan went through puberty. I think it will give her a much better chance at retaining her jumps.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

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    The kid has a lot of potential! Great technique! Who is her coach?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariek View Post
    The kid has a lot of potential! Great technique! Who is her coach?
    Alexei Mishin, Plushenko's coach

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    That was really good and there was something I really liked about the way she moved over the ice. I think she has tons of potential. From the video she already seems a little taller than most jumping beans so maybe she will just fill out and not get a lot taller, similar to the way Kwan went through puberty. I think it will give her a much better chance at retaining her jumps.
    She's got really nice basics aside from the wonderful jumps, and I like how she uses her arms. When she debuted at Russian senior nationals a few years ago (and had the highest TES in the LP), she had a horrible toe-axel that is pretty much gone now. Her 3Lz is also excellent. She gets great height and spring on it.
    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    She's got really nice basics aside from the wonderful jumps, and I like how she uses her arms. When she debuted at Russian senior nationals a few years ago (and had the highest TES in the LP), she had a horrible toe-axel that is pretty much gone now. Her 3Lz is also excellent. She gets great height and spring on it.
    You are right her 3Lz is a textbook. But what is more astonishing that her 3Lz-3t combo. She usually opened her programs with it last year. It is so light and airy, not much worse than Kim's 3Lz-3t combo.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    She's got really nice basics aside from the wonderful jumps, and I like how she uses her arms. When she debuted at Russian senior nationals a few years ago (and had the highest TES in the LP), she had a horrible toe-axel that is pretty much gone now. Her 3Lz is also excellent. She gets great height and spring on it.
    I just watched her performances at Russian Nationals
    2007-2008 season (her technique was far from perfect)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfK1jJD3yd0
    2008-2009 season
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PMYW...eature=related
    2009-2010 season
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGcUO...eature=related
    I can hardly believe it's the same girl. She improved a lot and every year she is better than before, not only her jumps, but her skating overall. I guess next year she can be even better

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnipeg View Post
    Great 3A! Hope she will not 'outgrow' it as she matures.

    The arm movements I could do with less.........
    No worries. There's always hormonal puberty-suppression therapy that figure skating can adopt from gymnastics. Keeps you tiny so that you can develop enough to win the big medal, although you'll go through life sounding like you have sucked a helium balloon (think "Kerry Strug")

    No way I would have believed that kid could do that good of an axel watching her skating into it. I expected to her do it cleanly but her body would collapse a bit on the landing. Very strong.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock2 View Post
    No worries. There's always hormonal puberty-suppression therapy that figure skating can adopt from gymnastics. Keeps you tiny so that you can develop enough to win the big medal, although you'll go through life sounding like you have sucked a helium balloon (think "Kerry Strug")

    No way I would have believed that kid could do that good of an axel watching her skating into it. I expected to her do it cleanly but her body would collapse a bit on the landing. Very strong.
    Yikes, probably not the best idea. Further, in general it seems that figure skaters don't have the same tendency to stunt their growth as gymnasts do, given that most figure skaters are taller than the average gymnast. Apparently she doesn't have the genetic predisposition to be tall though, so she may stay tiny. I know her legs are long, but it doesn't neccessarily mean she'll be tall. Christina Gao has super long legs and is only 5'2", and given that she's 16, she likely will only grow another inch tops.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by key65man View Post
    No wonder why Ziggy has been rather mellow lately. Too exhausted from the hard work to call my favorite skaters boring or nerdy.
    You're Canadian (aren't you? ), you can't help it.

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