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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It is interesting many rank Nancy's 94 Olympic LP ahead of Kristi's 92 Olympic LP. Would Nancy have won the 92 Olympics with her 94 performance? Then again probably not as she was still judged below even Baiul's joke excuse of an Olympic medal winning skate (let alone gold medal winning skate) as it was.
    It's also interesting that so many rank Ito's LP above Yamaguchi's. Only two judges on the Olympic panel did. Having re-watched the programs, I can just about see a convincing argument for ranking Ito higher. However, Yamaguchi had a triple-triple (and a 3Z-3T at that), harder, better spirals, spins, and footwork, and much better presentation.

    As for Kerrigan 1994, she did have higher jumps than Yamaguchi and didn't put her hand down on any of them. And she doubled her flip -- a more difficult jump -- instead of her salchow. I can't think of much else she did better than Yamaguchi.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It is interesting many rank Nancy's 94 Olympic LP ahead of Kristi's 92 Olympic LP. Would Nancy have won the 92 Olympics with her 94 performance? Then again probably not as she was still judged below even Baiul's joke excuse of an Olympic medal winning skate (let alone gold medal winning skate) as it was.
    I don't know how the judges would've scored Nancy in relation to Kristi in that scenario but it just seems so unlikely that Nancy would be at her absolute best at the same time Kristi was pretty much at her worst. Kristi's "worst" was almost always better than anything Nancy could come up with. If Kristi had landed the loop (usually a solid jump for her), I personally would have put her much higher up on the list.

    Not to go off on another tangent, but I think Kristi would have done really well in CoP. If all she had to do was skip the salchow and throw in an extra double axel (which she had planned anyway) she could have had a career as long as Kwan's. I think her lutz might get a (!) but her rotation was so fast and tight on all the jumps I think any minor UR issues would be cleaned up in practice.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    I don't know how the judges would've scored Nancy in relation to Kristi in that scenario but it just seems so unlikely that Nancy would be at her absolute best at the same time Kristi was pretty much at her worst. Kristi's "worst" was almost always better than anything Nancy could come up with. If Kristi had landed the loop (usually a solid jump for her), I personally would have put her much higher up on the list.

    Not to go off on another tangent, but I think Kristi would have done really well in CoP. If all she had to do was skip the salchow and throw in an extra double axel (which she had planned anyway) she could have had a career as long as Kwan's. I think her lutz might get a (!) but her rotation was so fast and tight on all the jumps I think any minor UR issues would be cleaned up in practice.
    Definitely not under COP. Kristi is another skater who is/was not meant for COP. Sure, she's consistent, but there is nothing special about her skating and every girl who comes out on top in COP has some amazing ability in their skating (like Yuna's huge toe jumps or Mirai's spin ability).

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Definitely not under COP. Kristi is another skater who is/was not meant for COP. Sure, she's consistent, but there is nothing special about her skating and every girl who comes out on top in COP has some amazing ability in their skating (like Yuna's huge toe jumps or Mirai's spin ability).
    How do you explain Evan Lysacek's success under COP then? I don't think you necessarily have to have anything "special" about your skating in order to succeed as long as you wisely play the numbers game, maximizing your allotted jump passes, packing triple jumps into the 2nd half bonus, loading your programs with transitions and numerous level 4 elements, and executing as cleanly as possible everything it is you attempt. Also, it's of utmost importance to be a strong, consistent SP skater to get the PCS in the LP to place where you want to be in the final standings.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    I don't know how the judges would've scored Nancy in relation to Kristi in that scenario but it just seems so unlikely that Nancy would be at her absolute best at the same time Kristi was pretty much at her worst. Kristi's "worst" was almost always better than anything Nancy could come up with. If Kristi had landed the loop (usually a solid jump for her), I personally would have put her much higher up on the list.

    Not to go off on another tangent, but I think Kristi would have done really well in CoP. If all she had to do was skip the salchow and throw in an extra double axel (which she had planned anyway) she could have had a career as long as Kwan's. I think her lutz might get a (!) but her rotation was so fast and tight on all the jumps I think any minor UR issues would be cleaned up in practice.
    I think the only reason Kristi didnt stay longer was she did win that gold. I think if she had continued to miss it she might well have stayed in as long as Kwan. If she somehow missed gold in 94 as well after missing it in 92 I wouldnt be surprised if she even made it to Nagano to try again (not saying she would win of course but I could see her being there for a 3rd try).

    I think Kwan is a different makeup IMO. I think she just loved to compete and didnt really like show skating or less competitive pro events as much and so even if she won in 1998 atleast would have stayed in for 2002. I am not sure if she would have stayed beyond 2002 if she won in either 98 or 2002 though.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I think the only reason Kristi didnt stay longer was she did win that gold. I think if she had continued to miss it she might well have stayed in as long as Kwan. If she somehow missed gold in 94 as well after missing it in 92 I wouldnt be surprised if she even made it to Nagano to try again (not saying she would win of course but I could see her being there for a 3rd try).

    I think Kwan is a different makeup IMO. I think she just loved to compete and didnt really like show skating or less competitive pro events as much and so even if she won in 1998 atleast would have stayed in for 2002. I am not sure if she would have stayed beyond 2002 if she won in either 98 or 2002 though.
    I agree about Kristi, I think she really wanted that hardware. I sort of agree about Kwan, but if it really was all about competition, why did she skip the GP in 98/99 and never again do 3 GP's? I wouldn't deny that she LOVED to compete, but her mind was also set on Olympic Gold like Kristi. At this point, considering her record I really don't think it matters, BUT I definitely think she was after the big prize.

  7. #47
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    I think Kwan loved to compete at nationals, worlds and olympics and at pro-ams. After a certain point the GP events didn't have much appeal and the GP had less than no appeal. I'd say she mostly didn't do GP events so she could avoid the hated GP final.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It is interesting many rank Nancy's 94 Olympic LP ahead of Kristi's 92 Olympic LP. Would Nancy have won the 92 Olympics with her 94 performance? Then again probably not as she was still judged below even Baiul's joke excuse of an Olympic medal winning skate (let alone gold medal winning skate) as it was.
    I had to think about that, because both performances are comparable.
    I'm sure Kristi would have won, due to the 3Lutz/3Toe, her World title and her lighter style. But Nancy's LP in 1994 was very good. Jumps were so clean. I can't believe she lost it to Baiul !!

  9. #49
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    1. Tara Lapinski 1998 Gold: Easly the best Olympic performance of the last twenty years.

    2. Michelle Kwan 1998 Silver: It says a lot about her as a skater that her "not peak" performance still ranks as one of the all time ladies Free Skates.

    3. Yuna Kim 2010 Gold: Wonderful jumps and fluid movements, but the performance itself was tame.

    4. Nancy Kerrigan, IMO robbed of an Olympic Gold Medal.

    5. Shisuka Arakawa, I don't think she had the best performance that night, even if she went clean, but she was the cleanest of them all that night.

    6. Kristy Yamaguchi, not a good skate by her, but like Shisuka a respectable skate.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It is interesting many rank Nancy's 94 Olympic LP ahead of Kristi's 92 Olympic LP. Would Nancy have won the 92 Olympics with her 94 performance? Then again probably not as she was still judged below even Baiul's joke excuse of an Olympic medal winning skate (let alone gold medal winning skate) as it was.
    Interestingly, NK had 3 5.7s and 6 5.8s for Tech in Lillehamer '94. KY had 4 5.7s and 5 5.8s for Tech in Albertville '92. Both skated early in their group. NK had 3 5.8s and 6 5.9s for Artistic. I'm not sure about KY but it was probably close to that.

    Also, NK skated after Chen Lu in Lillehamer and collected all 9 1st place ordinals which means not one Olympic judge put Lulu in front of NK. I think NK beat her, but I thought it should've been closer. They probably were holding something back for Baiul unfortunately. Really an example that the judges just weren't even considering Lulu

  11. #51
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    for the blank of it this is I would do it

    Michelle 98
    yu-na 2010
    mao 2010
    shizuka 2006
    tara 98 -she only did one triple/triple underwroted, wrote down two but only did one- one replays of videos they added the extra triple/triple and made michelle mistakes seemed worse.

    xxxxx
    joannie 2010
    xxxx

    kristi 92
    midiori 92
    irina 2002
    michelle 2002
    oksana 94 & nancy 94
    sarah 2002
    lu chen 98-don't remember it that well
    sasha 2006
    irina 2006
    lu chen 94 because i don't remember it and nancy 1992 because i don't remember it at all.

  12. #52
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    Michelle Kwan 1998 silver The kweeen!
    Shizuka Arakawa 2006 gold Loved the music and program
    Sasha Cohen 2006 silver I didnt even mind the falls
    Yu Na Kim 2010 gold Maybe the best technically, but I ve seen it twice live and always forget it. I adored her sp
    Mao Asada 2010 silver Yey!
    Joannie Rochette 2010 bronze Maybe should have been first on list for what she accomplished
    Irina Slutskaya 2002 silver Love her!
    Lu Chen 1994 bronze Fantastic program!
    Michelle Kwan 2002 bronze Broke my heart!
    Irina Slutskaya 2006 bronze Broke my heart!
    Midori Ito 1992 silver Wow, I had not seen it before!
    Kristi Yamaguchi I like her, not this program!

    Bonus: Butyrskaya, Cohen and Siguri in 2002

  13. #53
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    For me, I'd put Tara Lipinski's 1998 first in terms of excitement, but Yu-Na Kim's #1 in terms of technique. I think, although I admire very much how free she skated, Lipinski wasn't under the same pressure Yu-Na was under so it might have been easier for her to skate more free. Yu-Na's performance was admirable because of how she dealt with the pressure, that even with the big lead after the short program, she still gave a complete seven triple program and still executed the choreography fully. I think as theater (meaning the performance and following Kwan), Lipinski's LP was the best, but as an athletic and artistic achievement, Yu-Na's was the best.

    Just to clarify, I think Lipinski did have pressure following Kwan, but not the pressure of being the overwhelming favorite that Yu-Na (and Kwan) had.

    Thanks iarispiralllyof, my mistake.
    Last edited by jenny12; 07-09-2010 at 11:43 PM.

  14. #54
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    yu-na did 6 triples. wasn't joannie the only lady at vancouver to do 7 triples?

  15. #55
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    She did do seven triples. What did it mean that two of those were in a sequence and not a combination??

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I think the only reason Kristi didnt stay longer was she did win that gold.
    Kristi has stated on more than one occasion that she did not expect to win in 92 - she was treating it as a preparation for 94. She thought Midori would win the OGM in 92, and she was almost right. From 1989 to 2010, the only time the "expected" lady won the OGM was Yu-Na in 2010.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    yu-na did 6 triples. wasn't joannie the only lady at vancouver to do 7 triples?
    Joannie stepped out of the flip, so only 6 were clean.

    YuNa does not do 3loop anymore, so only 6. She did land all 7 once at CoR in the 07/08 season.

    Rachael Flatt actually landed 7 triples but had both flips downgraded, unfairly in my opinion.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    yu-na did 6 triples. wasn't joannie the only lady at vancouver to do 7 triples?
    Joannie Rochette and Alena Leonova were credited as the only 2 ladies to rotate 7 triples.

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    She did do seven triples. What did it mean that two of those were in a sequence and not a combination??
    It means she did 2 triples in sequence. Just because sequences unfairly don't get the full credit that combinations do doesn't mean that the jumps performed are not triples.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    I agree about Kristi, I think she really wanted that hardware. I sort of agree about Kwan, but if it really was all about competition, why did she skip the GP in 98/99 and never again do 3 GP's? I wouldn't deny that she LOVED to compete, but her mind was also set on Olympic Gold like Kristi. At this point, considering her record I really don't think it matters, BUT I definitely think she was after the big prize.
    In 1998-1999, she did many Pro-Am. I guess she needed to stay away from GP due to the disappointement of the Silver at the Olympics, to think about retirement. I think she realized that she needed to compete as an amateur and needed to win the Olympics.
    In 1999, she went to school, and that took her a lot of time. I guess that's why she prefered to compete in the US. JMHO

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    I'm curious to see where people would rank Liz Manley's '88 LP in the 1992 - 2010 group. It's the only one from an earlier time that I could think of to be competitive later on.

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