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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Oops! My bad, I knew that! . . . it's my 1st day back to work from the 4th holiday, so my mind is obviously dragging. Thanks for catching my error!
    i often make the same mistake....it seems that at worlds/olympics, a 7-clean triple LP is a thing of the past.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    I know this is dangerously off topic, but I never understood how anyone could call this performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtKGPN5VY8o cautious or tentative.

    Even Scott and Sandra were gushing from beginning to end about how "confident and relaxed" she was and that she had such a "beautiful look" on the ice. During most of the free skate, Kwan is smiling, looking up and out into the audience and presenting to the crowd. I find it really hard to believe that ALL nine judges would give the FIRST skater in the last group a 5.9 for presentation if they weren't captivated by the program. For the record, I would have given her the same presentation score as Lipinski, and only have Lipinski ahead on the tech mark by a tenth.
    I mean it was flawlessly technically, but she made it seem like she was making sure the jumps were going to happen. It just lacked spark, fire, and excitement like Lipinski had. The excitement and exuberance just seemed to rush out of Lipinski, while Kwan held it in more.
    Last edited by smarts1; 07-07-2010 at 12:29 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    I know this is dangerously off topic, but I never understood how anyone could call this performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtKGPN5VY8o cautious or tentative.

    Even Scott and Sandra were gushing from beginning to end about how "confident and relaxed" she was and that she had such a "beautiful look" on the ice. During most of the free skate, Kwan is smiling, looking up and out into the audience and presenting to the crowd. I find it really hard to believe that ALL nine judges would give the FIRST skater in the last group a 5.9 for presentation if they weren't captivated by the program. For the record, I would have given her the same presentation score as Lipinski, and only have Lipinski ahead on the tech mark by a tenth.
    I think the judges were carried away with the quantity of Lipinski's technical jump content and failed to judge the quality of it appropriately. Ugly 2Axel technique, very bad flutz, jumps landed at a standstill with no speed and no flow, tiny jumps. UR 2nd 3loop in the combo. Just bleh, IMO! I think they were judging Kwan too much based on the superior standard she had set at the Nationals. Yes, her Olympic LP was not the skate of her life like she had at the Nationals, but I still to this day think it was better than what Lipinski laid down.

  4. #24
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    IMO Kwan lost the gold that night to the skate order. Lipinski most certainly had more spark and excitement, but her skating after Kwan, with an electrifying skate that included 3+3 combos made for more comparisons. If Kwan had skated last that night, I don't think Scott/Sandra would have compared the two as they did. it was a matter of the draw order, I think. Her getting 5.9's even skating first, is a big shock. If she had skated last surely she would have gotten 6.0's, enough to win gold over Lipinski.

  5. #25
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    1. Yu Na Kim- flawless skate, worked the COP well, difficult entrances into jumps. I actually didn’t mind the choreography…it was sincere and she sold it well  Solid jumps and wonderful expression, but to be picky, the only thing that is always a pet peeve, that could be better, was the aesthetics- turning out of the feet more, pointed toes entering toe-jumps, perhaps better positions during step sequences, more stretch here etc… but as a total package I would put her on top.

    2. Shizuka Arakawa- if the competition was ice dance or pairs I would put her on top because she was the most polished skater of all listed here, but jumps are equally important. Her only doing a 2loop instead of a triple puts her at a close second in this list. She reminds me of Tatiana Totmianana when it comes to facial expression and emoting, but who cares- she used her body to emote, and NEVER hit a bad position. Aesthetics were perfect. Loved the lilting knees, effortless glide, had more speed coverage than any other lady that night. Choreography was actually quite complex too—full of transitions, moves in the field, no pausing, wow!

    3. Tara Lipinski – A gutsy skate! May have been a tad immature, but loved Bezic’s choreography. A 3r+3r and the 3+3 seq at the second half of the program puts her third on this list.

    4. Michelle Kwan 1998- 7 triples, bit shaky on the flip, tech. content not as hard as Tara’s, but she was a more polished skater.

    5. Mao Asada- this is weird considering she is my fav. skater..but as awful as the music cuts were, she sold this vampire program like a madwoman, and did a pretty great job! Not her fault Tarasova screwed her over, nor is it also for that comedy of a costume :run: Her SP to Waltz masquerade. despite the heavy music and theatrics, was actually a LOT better than the LP. At least it had interesting choreography. I put her in the top 5 for being the most refined skater at the Olympics, in terms of the aesthetics, finishing her moves well, and great positioning. As well, the two axels, gorgeous spiral sequence, and the extremely difficult footwork are highlights for me.

    6. Midori Ito- thought she could have won the LP in Albertville, either way, and a memorable performance for me.

    7. Joannie Rochette- Joannie is prob the most well-rounded lady skater, in terms of triples. She did more types of triple jumps than Yuna or Mao, despite not having a 3+3, and making a few slips. Despite the music cuts not really suiting my taste, her strong skating skills, connection to the music, and maturity stands out for me.

    8. Kristi Yamaguchi- close to Midori, but didn’t think her Malaguena for an OGM was anything unique.

    9. Nancy Kerrigan 1994- never liked her skating, not to mention this gawd-awful program, but did a glorious 3+3 combo, and the only mistake was a 2flip. She even landed two 3lutzes! Her technical content was brilliant, for sure.

    10. Lu Chen 1994- loved Lulu’s program this year, very unique, she was not as polished as Kerrigan, but technically she was fabulous. Presentation-wise had a bit to work on though.

    11. Sasha Cohen 2006- love her to death but those 3 mistakes were really distracting even if the rest of her program was gorgeous. Also, Arakawa was the only one that matched/surpassed her level of refinement, so even if Sasha had landed her jumps perfectly, she may not even have won gold anyways.

    12. Sarah Hughes 2002- her spins were actually the most complex of the night, if I recall correctly? Despite the obvious underrotations, this girl stayed on her feet while landing 7-attempted-triples, nice spirals and as mentioned difficult spins. Skating skills were not there yet, not a fan of the choreo.

    13. Irina Slutskaya 2002- Cautious, sloppy, terrible aesthetics. Change of foot Biellmann is something I’ll remember from her though.

    14. Michelle Kwan 2002- program-wise, it was ok. Much preferred 2001 SOTBS to this. Even with the fall on the flip, the first 2 jumps were VERY tight. 3loop was squeaky, 3t+2t was two-footed. Otherwise, probably the most refined skater of the night.

    15. Lu Chen 1998- loved Lulu’s comeback, but she underrotated a BUNCH of triple jumps. Wow. Technically weak, but program-wise, one of my favourites from her. Sandra Bezic did an excellent job.

    16. Irina Slutskaya 2006- basics were not there that night. Couldn’t stand the weird music cuts, especially the techno nearing the end. Sloppy sloppy sloppy. Fell on a loop and doubled a flip, but even so the rest of her jumps were messily landed and barely held on. The sleeves on her costume IMO made her look even more sloppy. Lack of stretch in spirals, but compensated with great extension in spins.

    17. Oksana Baiul 1994- She never skated like a cold fish unlike somebody that night, was free and not stiff, but can’t believe there was even a split decision as who would win. Most technical flaws an Olympic champion has ever made, NO combo jumps, underrotated a 2a+2t combo at the end…and didn’t think she was even that refined. Her telegraphed entrances were distracting, program was unbalanced. Even if she deserved higher artistic marks than Kerrigan, the huge gap in TES should have erased the question of a possible tie.

    18. Nancy Kerrigan 1992- of all the performances, this one is the most flat program I have ever seen. Several technical mistakes, choreography was definitely better than ’94, but still…most forgettable program since 92, for me.

  6. #26
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    1. Yuna- 2010
    2. Kristi- 1992
    3. Tara- 1998
    4. Shizuka-2006
    5. Sarah- 2002
    6. Oksana- 1994

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallcolor View Post

    9. Nancy Kerrigan 1994- never liked her skating, not to mention this gawd-awful program, but did a glorious 3+3 combo, and the only mistake was a 2flip. She even landed two 3lutzes! Her technical content was brilliant, for sure.
    Only one lutz for Nancy in the 94 free program, but it was in the second half of the program which was impressive.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    I think the judges were carried away with the quantity of Lipinski's technical jump content and failed to judge the quality of it appropriately. Ugly 2Axel technique, very bad flutz, jumps landed at a standstill with no speed and no flow, tiny jumps. UR 2nd 3loop in the combo. Just bleh, IMO! I think they were judging Kwan too much based on the superior standard she had set at the Nationals. Yes, her Olympic LP was not the skate of her life like she had at the Nationals, but I still to this day think it was better than what Lipinski laid down.
    I agree Tara had some really bad habits, but I do think she was able to exit her jumps with lots of speed coming out in most cases (see the opening axel and flip). I also don't think the 2nd loop was more than 1/4 short and probably would have been credited today. Her 3toe~3sal, while a bit tight, was also cleanly rotated.

  9. #29
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    Tara was a much better skater in 98 than 97. She really rose to the top in 1997 almost by default but by 98 she had improved alot.

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    1. Kim 2010 gold
    2. Kwan 1998 silver
    3. Lipinski 1998 gold
    4. Asada 2010 silver
    5. Ito 1992 silver
    6. Arakawa 2006 gold
    7. Kerrigan 1994 silver
    8. Yamaguchi 1992 gold
    9. Rochette 2010 bronze
    10. Hughes 2002 gold
    11. Cohen 2006 silver
    12. Kwan 2002 bronze
    13. Chen 1998 bronze
    14. Slutskaya 2002 silver
    15. Chen 1994 bronze
    16. Slutskaya 2006 bronze
    17. Baiul 1994 gold
    18. Kerrigan 1992 bronze

  11. #31
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    1. Yu Na 2010- an incredible skater skating perfectly at the olympics under CoP.

    2. Kwan 1998 - I know that this was anti-climactic after her Nats. performance, but she executed 7 triples including 2 3z's and 2 3l's with only a wonky but completed 3f, utilizing grace and beauty, always hitting an edge or position. But Arakawa in '06 under CoP with more attack/jumps would be ahead of her.

    3. Arakawa 2006 - only 5 triples, beautiful and silky smooth edges, a beautiful 3z-2l, 3-2-2 near the end, signature Ina Bauer. If she had skated with a little more attack and perhaps executed another triple or 3-3, I'd rank this ahead of Kwan '98 and only behind Yu Na, but 5 triples in '06 was just a little too conservative and paled in comparison to her '04 worlds performance.

    4. Lipinski 1998 - I put this behind Kwan '98. She executed 7 triples including 2 3-3s, a 3l-3l and 3t-3s seq. at the end, which is probably one of the most ambitious program I've seen and that put her high on the list, but held back by the flutz, smallish skating and horrific axel technique.

    5. Asada 2010 - 2 3x's made history. She made a program not suited for her finally work somehow. Skating a CoP program was harder than under 6.0, IMO. However, no lutz which is a trademark for ladies at this level and the fumbled jumps at the end marred the program. If clean, I would put only behind Yu-Na.

    6. Rochette 2010- I give her credit for skating one of her best performances under dire circumstances with good technique, good music, great use of CoP which for me was tougher than skating under 6.0, so that is why I ranked JR higher.

    7. Ito 1992 -I would rank this ahead of Yamaguchi in '92. She really had one glaring error - fall on the 3x which she did later in the program. The 2z-3t didn't break rhythm. Her artistry was decent by this point in time.

    8. Kerrigan 1994 - 5 triples. Should've won in 1994. Only mistake was doubling the 3f at the beginning. But executed a 3-3, spread eagle-3s-2t, BO Spiral-3l, and 3z at the end of the performance, also probably had the best spiral up to that point in skating history. She was at her ceiling, though. Yamaguchi ['92] and Cohen ['06] both clean would be ahead of her.

    9. Yamaguchi 1992 - 5 triples. 3z-3t to start but weak on edge jumps, falling on 3l and doubling the 3sal. She had quick rotations and got the job done, but I didn't think she had great or outstanding jump or spinning technique. If she would've just landed the 3l, I'd still have her ahead of NK '94. It's a shame we can't rank her '91 Worlds LP or '92 Nats 7 triple LP here. Those would be much higher

    10. Cohen 2006 - 5 triples. Disastrous beginning on her two harder jumps keeps her lower in the rankings for me. Additionally, she flutzed and her hardest 3-3 was a 2-footed 3-3 seq., still she never really ur'd anything and the rest of the jumps were there, the great spins, the incredible spiral seq., and overall feel of the program utilizing CoP was majestic.

    11. Chen 1994 - 5 triples. But only 3z-2t seq. due to bad landing on opening 3z, then hand down on her other hard jump - 3f. Decently executed otherwise. I have this behind Cohen due to weak spins, nearly non-existent spiral, and Cohen was doing everything under CoP. I wasn't a fan of Chen's posture, either.

    12. Hughes 2002 - 7 triple winning program with 2 3-3s so low? Well, it has to do with IMO mediocre skating skills, the most horrendous flutz among them all, ur'd 3-3s and a front-loaded program. I rank this ahead of Kwan and Slute '02 just because she was picked as the winner by the judges. All the '02 performances weren't that great in retrospect, were they? OK. She had a pretty layback spin and 2x.

    13. Kwan 2002 - 5 triples, a good spiral, and she did her hardest lutz combo in competition: 3z-2l, but the weirdest fall on the 3f, tight 3l, 2-footed 3t-2t only, and this performance overall for me was so 'phoned-in', perhaps this really stands out because she is Kwan and you expect greatness. I have this ahead of Slute '02 though.

    14. Chen 1998 - This LP is saved by its emotional impact. It saddens me to say but the jumps were not that great - bad ur's on 3z and final 3t plus bad fallout of her 3f, plus her spins were never the best.

    15. Slutskaya 2006 - I rank this ahead of Slutskaya 2002 just because 1) she had developed her power style by '06 and was secure in it, skating with gravitas and we no longer had to suffer watching her shake bees out of her hair. 2) It had mistakes, but was done under CoP which is more difficult. Still, you probably could interchange Slute '02 and '06

    16. Slutskaya 2002 - This performance in retrospect wasn't so bad jump-wise. 2 big 3z's [but one may have been 2-footed], 3-2-2 seq. The only glaring jump error was the bad landing on the 3f [what's with the 3f for top ladies under pressure?] but like Kwan it was so 'phoned-in'. It was like the 2 of them were on automatic pilot. But what killed Slutskaya's programs in this time frame [prior to CoP] was when she was slow and tentative and that happened here. It completely ruined the overall effect because she didn't quite have her unique power style developed yet. She was skating to unsuitable bombastic opera music or pretty ballerina music in this time period

    17. Kerrigan 1992 - This was one of Nancy's better-constructed programs but she lost all her hard jumps in the performance, popped the 2d jump of the 3-3 and had 2 other major errors that I can recall.

    18. Baiul 1994 -Sad. I can't find anything good to say about this program.
    Last edited by olympic; 07-07-2010 at 09:53 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallcolor View Post
    IMO Kwan lost the gold that night to the skate order. Lipinski most certainly had more spark and excitement, but her skating after Kwan, with an electrifying skate that included 3+3 combos made for more comparisons. If Kwan had skated last that night, I don't think Scott/Sandra would have compared the two as they did. it was a matter of the draw order, I think. Her getting 5.9's even skating first, is a big shock. If she had skated last surely she would have gotten 6.0's, enough to win gold over Lipinski.
    And Tara not skated right after Kwan, but after Bonaly. I think it helped her.
    Anyway, Tara skated brilliantly, and even as a Kwan fan, I see why she won.

  13. #33
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    I am so confused as to why so many people act as if yu-na is infinitely better than mao. yu-na was definitely better than mao the last season but they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but they're so close to me

    I'm not going to argue artistry because that's always based on personal opinion and it's pointless to debate.

    so yu-na has insane GOE on her jumps right? but mao can do both triple axel and triple-triples. they are about equal in spins although mao has superior extension so her spins edge out yu-na's by a bit, mao's spirals are also much better for this reason. (and yes I realize some ppl think yuna's speed on her spiral balances it out..even so they're about even on so many elements) their footwork and transitions seem about equal to me as well.

    I realize everyone explodes about yu-na's "amazing artistry" but that aside (and it's not as if mao is a weak artistic skater) how is she so head and shoulders above everyone besides jumping really high and skating fast?

    of course we're just discussing performances so obviously yu-na beats mao based on mao's multiple mistakes. as others have said mao's camp focused too much on just the triple axel when it was worth less than yu-na's triple triple

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    I am so confused as to why so many people act as if yu-na is infinitely better than mao. yu-na was definitely better than mao the last season but they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but they're so close to me
    ...
    of course we're just discussing performances so obviously yu-na beats mao based on mao's multiple mistakes. as others have said mao's camp focused too much on just the triple axel when it was worth less than yu-na's triple triple
    This has already been discussed to death during the season. This is probably not a good thing to discuss it again. YuNa won the Olympics and Mao won Worlds. Off season

    This thread is about your opinion about already skated LP's. How would you have ranked them ?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    This has already been discussed to death during the season. This is probably not a good thing to discuss it again. YuNa won the Olympics and Mao won Worlds. Off season

    This thread is about your opinion about already skated LP's. How would you have ranked them ?
    ;P sorry I was a little late in joining this forum. in terms of already skated olympic performances yeah yu-na wins

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    ;P sorry I was a little late in joining this forum. in terms of already skated olympic performances yeah yu-na wins
    I think you may be bringing trouble upon yourself.

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    don't get me wrong, I do think yu-na is immensely talented

  18. #38
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    Comparing 6.0 and CoP lps is just as senseless as comparing 1972 and 1976 and 1992 lps....

    my completely biased and non-objective rankings

    6.0

    1. Kwan 98 (I won't say it should have won but I enjoyed it the most)
    2. Ito 92 (might have won the lp if it would have made a difference)
    3. Kerrigan 94 (hate on hatorz, the best lp ever from an original and elegant skater)

    CoP

    1. Kim 10 (not only the best skater, but used the system better than other ladies)
    2. Arakawa 06 (so much more there than the jumps)
    3. Cohen 06 (after the first unfortunate minute the best she's ever skated)

    Least favorite:

    6.0

    03. Kerrigan 92 (hot mess of an lp from an infuriatingly inconsistent lp skater)
    02. Yamaguchi 92 (worst lp of a great champion during her time at the top)
    01. Baiul 94 (worst skating skills ever for an ogm and worst program since Schuba)

    CoP

    the sample size is still too small so I'll just single out one

    !. Slutskata 06. Bad outing from a great skater, nothing working like it should)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallcolor View Post
    IMO Kwan lost the gold that night to the skate order. Lipinski most certainly had more spark and excitement, but her skating after Kwan, with an electrifying skate that included 3+3 combos made for more comparisons. If Kwan had skated last that night, I don't think Scott/Sandra would have compared the two as they did. it was a matter of the draw order, I think. Her getting 5.9's even skating first, is a big shock. If she had skated last surely she would have gotten 6.0's, enough to win gold over Lipinski.
    I have always thought this.

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    It is interesting many rank Nancy's 94 Olympic LP ahead of Kristi's 92 Olympic LP. Would Nancy have won the 92 Olympics with her 94 performance? Then again probably not as she was still judged below even Baiul's joke excuse of an Olympic medal winning skate (let alone gold medal winning skate) as it was.

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