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  1. #61

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    What is not to love about the 1993 Worlds version of Oksana's one and only LP? It is pure solo jumps, spins, and butt shack dancing with none of those distracting jump combinations, sophisticated field moves (ie spread eagles, etc.), or footwork that involves more that just picking up ones feet, etc.

    (If you do not get it, I was being sarcastic. Oksana winning World and Olympic Championships without these elements lessened the standards of program constructions. The disappearance of moves in the field in favor of speed between 1993-2005 and the advent of the new term "transitions" would have never happened.)
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-02-2010 at 09:00 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    What is not to love about the 1993 Worlds version of Oksana's one and only LP? It is pure solo jumps, spins, and butt shack dancing with none of those distracting jump combinations, sophisticated field moves (ie spread eagles, etc.), or footwork that involves more that just picking up ones feet, etc.
    Yes, her program construction would have been totally crushed in a COP competition. Still, this is the world of 6.0 we are talking about here, a world where multiple cheated jumps by Sarah Hughes and Chen Lu can place in the top 3 in Olympic and World competition. For the record, I don't believe Baiul should have won the Olympic title either.

  3. #63

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    The 6.0 era was not so terrible. If Oksana was labeled a "Jumping Bean with rhythm" and given 5.0-5.4 in both technical and presentation marks the way Bonaly was labeled "Merely a Gymnast on Ice" then Oksana would have won herself some medals at Euros and been top 10 at Worlds, but she would not have been a model for program construction that was, for the most part, indescribable using the language of skating between the jumps and spins . . . "then Oksana does a series of rhythmic step kicks by picking up her flats from the ice and stepping forward in rhythm with the music while her arms are doing the Hustle."
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-02-2010 at 09:14 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    It sure did, and I'm not even a Baiul fan, but her LP at the 1993 Worlds stands for me as her best program ever! It surely beats Lipinski's tiny jumps and immature presentation from 1997, Chen's typically cheated jumps (I absolutely hated her Lutz and flip technique), Yamaguchi's flawed '92 LP to the overplayed Malaguena (plus, I've always believed Kristi truly blossomed as a pro skater; I'm not a big fan of her eligible skating), and Trenary's program is too outdated and lacking in difficulty, IMO. As for Kwan, I really do love her and her Lyra Angelica LP, but her '98 Worlds LP skate of it was one of her worst that season . . . only the '97 Skate Canada LP performance was worse. Still, with Slutskaya and Butyrskaya absolutely tanking in the '98 Worlds SP, Kwan was able to easily win her 2nd World title.
    Well, good point, but then again, Oksana only seems to look better than the rest of these girls (minus Trenary) because she had a much easier program than everyone else and did these elements near flawlessly. Who knows what would have happened if she did a second triple lutz and a couple of combos in addition to some varied spins and footwork.

    Kristi only fell on a salchow at 92 worlds and Lu Chen's under-rotated jumps didn't come until 1997-1998 really, and they were not a problem at all at 95 worlds... Although I would have to agree about her lutz technique, but at least it was high and gorgeous when she could do them!

  5. #65
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    1996 Kwan
    1995 Chen
    1997 Lipinski
    1992 Yamaguchi
    1991 Yamaguchi
    1999 Butyrskaya
    1994 Sato
    1993 Baiul
    1998 Kwan
    1990 Trenary

  6. #66

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    I just rewatched some of these, and these were some good performances. Having said that, I guess I'd rank them as:

    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1999 Maria Butyrskaya
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1995 Lu Chen
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1994 Yuka Sato
    1998 Michelle Kwan
    1990 Jill Trenary
    1993 Oksana Baiul

    I was tempted to give Maria the #1 nod, but I think Kwan's '96 program was a bit better constructed. However, Maria had such a wonderfully mature look on the ice, and she was so good in '99 -- very satisfying, feel-good win. Tara's technical merit was so strong, and really, so was Kristi's - I'm amazed she was able to regroup and give such a good performance in 1992 right after winning OGM, including that 3-3! Major props to her.
    Last edited by Cheylana; 07-17-2010 at 12:40 AM.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  7. #67

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    1993 Oksana Baiul
    1994 Yuka Sato
    1990 Jill Trenary
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1999 Maria Butyrskaya
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1995 Chen Lu
    1998 Michelle Kwan

    Based on the total drama of the competition, on and off the ice

  8. #68
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    Favorites, in order:
    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1999 Maria Butyrskaya
    1990 Jill Trenary

    Middle of the road:
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1995 Lu Chen
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1994 Yuka Sato

    Really don't get it:
    1993 Oksana Baiul

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    Favorites, in order:
    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1999 Maria Butyrskaya
    1990 Jill Trenary
    Really ?
    I liked Jill Trenary, but her LP in 1990 was not in the same league as the other 3 you mentioned, IMO ! Could you explain ?

  10. #70
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    Haha. I have always loved Jill's skating. I love her toeloop, salchow, and axel techniques and just overall style.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    Haha. I have always loved Jill's skating. I love her toeloop, salchow, and axel techniques and just overall style.
    YOU WOULD

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    Haha. I have always loved Jill's skating. I love her toeloop, salchow, and axel techniques and just overall style.
    That could be an entire thread all on its own.....

  13. #73
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    Favorites, in order:
    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1999 Maria Butyrskaya
    1990 Jill Trenary

    Middle of the road:
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1995 Lu Chen
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1994 Yuka Sato

    Really don't get it:
    1993 Oksana Baiul
    What happened to 1998?

  14. #74
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    I finally figured the order out. I chose based on content and personal enjoyment after watching these routines.

    1) 1996 - Michelle Kwan "Salome"
    2) 1999 - Maria Butyrskaya "Otonal"
    3) 1995 - Lu Chen "The Last Emperor
    4) 1994 - Yuka Sato "Don Quixote" and other pieces
    5) 1997 - Tara Lipinski "Sense and Sensibility" & "Much Ado About Nothing"
    6) 1991 - Kristi Yamaguchi "Samson and Delilah"
    7) 1992 - Kristi Yamaguchi "Malaguena'
    8) 1998 - Michelle Kwan "Lyra Angelica"
    9) 1990 - Jill Trenary Medley of stuff
    10) 1993 - Oksana Baiul Mish-mash of Broadway showtunes that had nothing to do with one another.

    If I was to include Lu Chen's 1996 and Michelle Kwan's 1997 routines then Lu Chen would be tied with Kwan at number 1 and 1997 would be at number 2 (if she had hit that last Lutz, it'd be number 1 for sure).
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  15. #75
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    1. Butyrskaya 1999
    2. Chen 1995
    3. Lipinski 1997
    4. Kwan 1996
    5. Yamaguchi 1992
    6. Yamaguchi 1991
    7. Baiul 1993
    8. Kwan 1998
    9. Trenary 1990
    10. Sato 1994

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    YOU WOULD
    Thank you.

    FYI, DarrellH, I'd put Kwan's 98 Worlds LP in between 95 Chen and 92 Yamaguchi... sorry I forgot the first time, but frankly, I didn't think anyone would care.

    You sure know how to make a guy feel good.

  17. #77
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    1992 - Kristi Yamaguchi
    1999 - Maria Butyrskaya
    1993 - Oksana Baiul
    1990 - Jill Trenary
    1996 - Michelle Kwan
    1998 - Michelle Kwan
    1991 - Kristi Yamaguchi
    1995 - Lu Chen
    1994 - Yuka Sato
    1997 - Tara Lipinski

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I'm amazed at how immediately the judges fell in love with Oksana Baiul beginning in '93.

    She had no real world or Olympic track record, and it wasn't as if she was so superior to all the other top ladies that merited her being placed at 'the top of the heap' in her first year. Perhaps her rise was fueled by a combination of her sad life story [orphan, sleeping at the rink, etc.], the judges obvious dislike for her top Euro rival Surya Bonaly, and Nancy Kerrigan's implosion. Then, by '94 the dye was cast.

    But it's also just weird that the judges were not considering other ladies besides Nancy and Surya, who had been around longer than Oksana, and who had better skating than her on a good day -Chen Lu, Yuka Sato, even Josee Chouinard. I also don't consider the Ukraine to have a really strong Fed to push her [then again, I forgot they had Viktor Petrenko]
    Because Baiul had more charisma than any of these ladies. I was watching her performances the other day and I agree with commentators who said she just grabs your attention whenever she's on the ice. Her incredible presence helped hide her weaknesses. She was also very fortunate to come onto the scene during a time where there wasn't a consistent female skater who was both artistically and technically excellent.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Because Baiul had more charisma than any of these ladies. I was watching her performances the other day and I agree with commentators who said she just grabs your attention whenever she's on the ice. Her incredible presence helped hide her weaknesses. She was also very fortunate to come onto the scene during a time where there wasn't a consistent female skater who was both artistically and technically excellent.
    To me she was always the girl who stuck out her butt while doing crossovers and couldn't do any footwork to save her life.

  20. #80
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    Chouinard and Sato never really gave the judges any chance to reward her other than the 93 and 94 Worlds SP for Chouinard, the Olympic LP for Sato and the 94 Worlds for Sato. Chouinard bombed the LP at every major meet from 92 onwards. Sato didnt have all the triples yet in 92 or 93, then blew the SP at the Olympics in Lillehammer.

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