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  1. #41
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    I'm amazed at how immediately the judges fell in love with Oksana Baiul beginning in '93.

    She had no real world or Olympic track record, and it wasn't as if she was so superior to all the other top ladies that merited her being placed at 'the top of the heap' in her first year. Perhaps her rise was fueled by a combination of her sad life story [orphan, sleeping at the rink, etc.], the judges obvious dislike for her top Euro rival Surya Bonaly, and Nancy Kerrigan's implosion. Then, by '94 the dye was cast.

    But it's also just weird that the judges were not considering other ladies besides Nancy and Surya, who had been around longer than Oksana, and who had better skating than her on a good day -Chen Lu, Yuka Sato, even Josee Chouinard. I also don't consider the Ukraine to have a really strong Fed to push her [then again, I forgot they had Viktor Petrenko]

  2. #42
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    Just top three:

    1. Butirskaya 1999
    2. Chen 1995
    3. Kwan 1996 (in my opinion Chen should have won though)

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I'm amazed at how immediately the judges fell in love with Oksana Baiul beginning in '93.

    I also don't consider the Ukraine to have a really strong Fed to push her [then again, I forgot they had Viktor Petrenko]
    With the not very talented Elena Liashenko bronze medalist at 1995 Euros, Romanova and Yaroshenko bronze medalist at 1996 Euros.
    For sure, ukranian fed had some influence at that time !

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    With the not very talented Elena Liashenko bronze medalist at 1995 Euros, Romanova and Yaroshenko bronze medalist at 1996 Euros.
    For sure, ukranian fed had some influence at that time !
    Yes. I began to backtrack on that statement in my initial post. It's also quite possible that in the early 90s there was some Soviet Fed. residual effect on the Ukraine, I suppose.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I'm amazed at how immediately the judges fell in love with Oksana Baiul beginning in '93.

    She had no real world or Olympic track record, and it wasn't as if she was so superior to all the other top ladies that merited her being placed at 'the top of the heap' in her first year. Perhaps her rise was fueled by a combination of her sad life story [orphan, sleeping at the rink, etc.], the judges obvious dislike for her top Euro rival Surya Bonaly, and Nancy Kerrigan's implosion. Then, by '94 the dye was cast.

    But it's also just weird that the judges were not considering other ladies besides Nancy and Surya, who had been around longer than Oksana, and who had better skating than her on a good day -Chen Lu, Yuka Sato, even Josee Chouinard. I also don't consider the Ukraine to have a really strong Fed to push her [then again, I forgot they had Viktor Petrenko]
    Yeah it was kind of strange. I think she had this charisma about her that just made everyone fall for her though. I also think the judges were fed up with Kerrigan's inconsistency in big events after the 93 Worlds and tired of waiting yet another year to see if she would get her act together to win a major title. Bonaly well like you said.

    As for the others Chen did everything around that time to merit reaching the top in the weak womens field other than being from China I think. The idea of a Chinese skater on top was just a foreign concept at the time and her federation didnt understand anything about politiking back then. Sato didnt even get her triple lutz and triple flip both until 1994, and she had been very inconsistent in most of her performances leading to the 94 Games and then bombed the short program there to end her hopes. Chouinard had been even more inconsistent than Kerrigan leading up to 94, so now at 24 and without a World medal and history of crash and burn performances she was mostly seen as more of an emerging journeywomen than a real contender.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    AM I the only one who thinks that Surya Bonaly LP in 1993 was her best at Worlds, and should have won 1993 Worlds and would have won 1994 Worlds ?
    I think the 93 Worlds should have gone to either Bonaly or Chen. Both far outskated Baiul in the LP portion. Maybe Surya since she had a better short program than Lu.

    The 94 Worlds definitely should have gone to Sato. It shoudnt have even been a 5-4 split IMO. Bonaly was actually overmarked here I feel after 2 mistakes and an overall flat performance. Yeah I agree if she had been the 93 World Champion she would have been "given" the 94 World title for the same performance but it wouldnt have been right.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    AM I the only one who thinks that Surya Bonaly LP in 1993 was her best at Worlds, and should have won 1993 Worlds and would have won 1994 Worlds ?
    Word. If I could replace Bonaly's 93 Worlds LP with Baiul's my list would be:

    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1993 Surya Bonaly
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1988 Michelle Kwan
    1995 Lu Chen
    1999 Maria Butyrskya
    1994 Yuka Sato
    1990 Jill Trenary
    Last edited by lilshorty; 07-02-2010 at 04:51 PM.

  8. #48

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    Here are mine, of the ones I have seen so far:

    1996--Kwan
    1992-Yamaguchi
    1995-Lu Chen
    1991-Yamaguchi

  9. #49
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    In retrospect, I would drop Sato's '94 performance to 7th just ahead of Kwan '98. I hadn't seen that performance in some time and was going by memories of the moment. Some of her landings were choppy and she doubled a 3toe

  10. #50
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    certainly someone has to agree this is in the top 3 best world champ LONG PROGRAMS of the 90's???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-oqw...eature=related

    minus the doubled lutz at the end

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    certainly someone has to agree this is in the top 3 best world champ LONG PROGRAMS of the 90's???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-oqw...eature=related

    minus the doubled lutz at the end
    I would have except for Kwan 96, Chen 96, and Ito 90 (since we are bringing in other non gold performances). Still it was a stunning program and skate. If she had done the 2nd triple lutz I would have rated it over 1996 easily since I think her presentation had improved more since 96, and her overall skating, plus she did the triple-triple this time (though a bit shaky on the 2nd jump). However her flawless program under immense pressure in 96 has to outrank probably.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I'm amazed at how immediately the judges fell in love with Oksana Baiul beginning in '93.

    She had no real world or Olympic track record, and it wasn't as if she was so superior to all the other top ladies that merited her being placed at 'the top of the heap' in her first year. Perhaps her rise was fueled by a combination of her sad life story [orphan, sleeping at the rink, etc.], the judges obvious dislike for her top Euro rival Surya Bonaly, and Nancy Kerrigan's implosion. Then, by '94 the dye was cast.

    But it's also just weird that the judges were not considering other ladies besides Nancy and Surya, who had been around longer than Oksana, and who had better skating than her on a good day -Chen Lu, Yuka Sato, even Josee Chouinard. I also don't consider the Ukraine to have a really strong Fed to push her [then again, I forgot they had Viktor Petrenko]
    Except for her Olympic short program skate, I don't think Baiul was even 5.8-worthy on the second mark, ever. She had the good fortune of being compared to Bonaly on the second mark though.

    Just like Lipinski had the good fortune of being compared to, well, Bonaly, back to back in Nagano, making her second mark shoot from 5.7 to 5.9 overnight.

    Back in 1993 and even in 1994, Sato didn't really have the big jumps and Chen came from a Federation with absolutely no backing. Kerrigan and Harding could be great but they were often hot and cold.

    I think the judges were just very concerned about crowning Bonaly as Olympic champion that they needed to make a star within a relatively short period of time and Baiul was probably the best candidate all things considered.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    OMG, I just watched Trenary's program . . . and now I have clubbed in Santorini in the late 70s, watched the pensive portion of an early 80's after school special about teen pregnancy, and clubbed in Miami in the late 80s with a brief detour to an Acapulco All-inclusive.
    I did a little follow up research from Jill's 3 selections, and they were, specifically:

    Sandstorm by La Bionda (1978)

    The Mermaid by Yanni (1987)

    Chicos y Chicas by Mavis Vegas Davis from the "Salsa" Soundtrack (1988)

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    I did a little follow up research from Jill's 3 selections, and they were, specifically:

    Sandstorm by La Bionda (1978)
    Off topic, but this music was better with Lilia Podkopayeva in 1995. Her FX routine was amazing !

  15. #55
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    1. Kwan 1996
    2. Butyrskaya 1999
    3. Sato 1994
    4. Baiul 1993
    5. Yamaguchi 1992
    6. Yamaguchi 1991
    7. Chen 1995
    8. Kwan 1998
    9. Lipinski 1997
    10. Trenary 1990

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    certainly someone has to agree this is in the top 3 best world champ LONG PROGRAMS of the 90's???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-oqw...eature=related

    minus the doubled lutz at the end
    I couldn't agree with you more! I had never realized how much better a program Kwan had in 97 compared to Salome in 96. Really brilliant choreography full of transitions. I would even guess that choreography could hold up pretty easily under IJS standards.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    I couldn't agree with you more! I had never realized how much better a program Kwan had in 97 compared to Salome in 96. Really brilliant choreography full of transitions. I would even guess that choreography could hold up pretty easily under IJS standards.
    You know, the name of this thread title is "Rank the World Championship winning Ladies LPs 1990 - 1999" and Kwan actually did beat Lipinski in the LP at the 1997 Worlds, but due to a 4th place in the SP, she didn't win the gold medal overall. With that said, if I included MK's '97 Worlds LP in my rankings, it would be 3rd in my list behind Kwan 1996 and Butyrskaya 1999.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    1. Kwan 1996
    2. Butyrskaya 1999
    3. Sato 1994
    4. Baiul 1993
    5. Yamaguchi 1992
    6. Yamaguchi 1991
    7. Chen 1995
    8. Kwan 1998
    9. Lipinski 1997
    10. Trenary 1990
    Did that #4 pick as Baiul really just happen, especially over all the performances from 5-9?

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Did that #4 pick as Baiul really just happen, especially over all the performances from 5-9?
    It sure did, and I'm not even a Baiul fan, but her LP at the 1993 Worlds stands for me as her best program ever! It surely beats Lipinski's tiny jumps and immature presentation from 1997, Chen's typically cheated jumps (I absolutely hated her Lutz and flip technique), Yamaguchi's flawed '92 LP to the overplayed Malaguena (plus, I've always believed Kristi truly blossomed as a pro skater; I'm not a big fan of her eligible skating), and Trenary's program is too outdated and lacking in difficulty, IMO. As for Kwan, I really do love her and her Lyra Angelica LP, but her '98 Worlds LP skate of it was one of her worst that season . . . only the '97 Skate Canada LP performance was worse. Still, with Slutskaya and Butyrskaya absolutely tanking in the '98 Worlds SP, Kwan was able to easily win her 2nd World title.

  20. #60
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    I agree Baiul's best ever performance was the 93 Worlds LP which kind of sucks for her to be honest.

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