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  1. #821
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    Yes, SkateFan66, if you enjoy Evan's skating that is a good argument, especially with him being OGM. However, I think he's already hurt himself by not coming back at Skate America, and the other question of how competitive he will actually be now after taking a year off, has yet to be answered. Jeremy Abbott has two great programs this season, and perhaps he has the best chance of competing for a top three spot at Worlds. Of course, it won't be easy. But who thinks it will be easy for Evan either? IMO, Abbott being left off the 2011 Worlds team damaged U.S. chances to retain 3 spots. The guys who were sent did not perform horribly but were low-balled in the scoring, and unfortunately the judges were not buying Ryan's quads making him a Worlds challenger, plus he didn't perform to his best ability anyway.

    I think Evan and his coach worked CoP strategy very effectively, and Evan has been the ultimate hard worker b/c as he admitted in a DWTS segment, he realized early on as a skater that some of his competitors may have had more natural talent, and that it was harder for him being a tall skater. Frank was successful in helping Evan use his height to advantage, but IMHO, Evan does not excel at presentation and artistry, despite being highly rewarded on PCS by the judges. It's not for nothing that Jeremy Abbott won Nationals twice ahead of Evan, who was the favorite (and the defending Nats champ too in 2009, when Abbott won his first U.S. title).

  2. #822

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    IMHO, Evan does not excel at presentation and artistry, despite being highly rewarded on PCS by the judges. It's not for nothing that Jeremy Abbott won Nationals twice ahead of Evan, who was the favorite (and the defending Nats champ too in 2009, when Abbott won his first U.S. title).
    Different strokes for different folks and all that but I think Evan's presentation is pretty good - for sure, he's not an artiste like Jeremy or Dai (my faves), but he's fast and confident across the ice, and for me, his enthusiasm is infectious. In person, he looks great and skates "big," and I think the judges like that a lot.

    That said, I don't think USFS will gift Evan any National titles; as you pointed out Jeremy has soundly beaten him at Nationals twice.

    I'm a big fan of "going out while on top" but I wouldn't mind if Evan came back because (1) having a top guy pushes the other guys to greater heights, just like Kwan did for a generation of US ladies, (2) I think a team of Evan and Jeremy could regain the three Worlds spots and (3) I'd be curious to see how the DWTS experience might have influenced his skating.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  3. #823
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    I like Evan's skating very much, especially the power, passion and command he presented on ice. I watched him skating in this year's SOI, and I was very impressed, it was much better than what I've seen on TV. Yes, artistry wise, he DID IMPROVE A LOT after DWTS.

    As for PCS, I checked the protocols of 2009 and 2010 U.S. Nationals, and Evan was NOT highly rewarded on PCS, inspite of the fact that in both years, he entered the competition as the highest ranking US man in the world.

    PCS in 2009 US Championships,

    Evan: SP: 38.29; LP: 73.78
    Jeremy: SP: 39.61; LP: 80.00

    PCS in 2010 US Championships,

    Evan: SP: 39.46; LP: 81.66
    Jeremy: SP: 40.30; LP: 86.06

    Even in 2007 US Championships, where Evan delievered (so far) his best LP performance at US Nationals (with the perfect quad-triple) and brought the house down, his PCS was only 78+.

    So I don't think USFS will treat him differently than any of the competitors, he won't be gifted with PCS or rank, he HAS to FIGHT and EARN the title as anybody else (if he IS going to compete).

  4. #824
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    Thanks for your takes Athena and Cheylana. BTW, what is Evan's PCS vs Johnny's in those years, let's say from 2007 - 2010?

  5. #825

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    I'd have to wager a guess that Evan was consistently out-scoring Johnny on the PCS during that time period. From 2009-10 the USFS saw Evan and Jeremy as the top two guys, and Johnny became the #3 guy.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  6. #826
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    ^^ Yes, of course, not surprising, so that's where I'd say Evan is over-scored on PCS, and also when he was scored higher than Matt Savoie too.

    Jeremy's PCS should probably have been even higher in the sps mentioned above.

  7. #827
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    I respectfully disagree. If you dislike a skater, you'll always feel that he/she's overscored; if you like a skater, you'll always feel that he/she's underscored; that's why we're called "fans", not "judges" . Evan vs Johnny was already history, let's not initiate the same old debate all over again; it's time to move on.

    As for Evan vs Jeremy (IF they're going to compete H2H at Nationals), the latter clearly got the edge on PCS according to their recent records at Nationals. Although I'm an Evan fan, I do think Jeremy will be the favorite going into U.S. Nationals. If he skates cleanly, Evan will have a hard time to beat him. After all, he hasn't been skating competitively for almost two years. So I just wish that Evan could stay healthy and skate to his best potential. I'll be proud of him no matter what the result will be.

  8. #828

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ Yes, of course, not surprising, so that's where I'd say Evan is over-scored on PCS, and also when he was scored higher than Matt Savoie too.
    I thought Evan's PCS were mostly ok, but that Johnny's and Matt's were frequently too low. Sorry for contributing to thread drift....
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  9. #829
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    You're a great fan of Evan, Athena, and that's very admirable. So, I suppose you also "like" Jeremy (according to your logic) since you can be so objective regarding his chances at Nationals. Whatever happens it should be exciting. Even though, I too have favorites, I am able to be objective when I assess skaters' talents, believe it or not. It is definitely a subjective sport, however, filled with drama, suspense and irony.

    I'm not eager to see either Evan or Johnny return at this point. I thought that if Evan was returning it would have been to his advantage to show up at SA. Whatever happens, Nationals is always exciting, and if Evan comes back, there will be that extra dollop of excitement and competitiveness to

  10. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    Although I'm an Evan fan, I do think Jeremy will be the favorite going into U.S. Nationals. If he skates cleanly, Evan will have a hard time to beat him.
    Evan does not need to beat Jeremy at the Nationals, USA has two spots. In Worlds Evan has always beaten Jeremy, would it change now? Anyway, I´m a fan of both Evan and Jeremy....

  11. #831

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Evan does not need to beat Jeremy at the Nationals, USA has two spots. In Worlds Evan has always beaten Jeremy, would it change now? Anyway, I´m a fan of both Evan and Jeremy....
    Actually, if Evan competes and if he beats Jeremy at Nats, it will be Jeremy who has the better shot at the World podium. It has been over a decade since he US men's champ was also the medalist at Worlds or Olys. I hope that Evan does compete, but I am not sure that he actually will do so.

  12. #832

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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Actually, if Evan competes and if he beats Jeremy at Nats, it will be Jeremy who has the better shot at the World podium. It has been over a decade since he US men's champ was also the medalist at Worlds or Olys. I hope that Evan does compete, but I am not sure that he actually will do so.
    Eys, it's the darndest thing, isn't it?!?
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  13. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Actually, if Evan competes and if he beats Jeremy at Nats, it will be Jeremy who has the better shot at the World podium. It has been over a decade since he US men's champ was also the medalist at Worlds or Olys. I hope that Evan does compete, but I am not sure that he actually will do so.
    Yeah, there has been many interesting "statistics":

    - no man since Button has won the Olympic gold metal at his first try (Kulik did in 1998)

    - no reigning men´s World champion has won the Olympics since Scott Hamilton (Lysacek did in 2010)

    - all reigning male US World champions have won the gold medal at the Olympics

  14. #834
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    From SOI's official twitter:

    Evan has chosen to compete this season & therefore not available to tour.


    According to reliable resources, I knew that other than SOI tour, Evan was also invited by multiple Disson shows and last year's "Skating with the stars" (where he was offered multiple options), but he declined all of them . So I'm pretty sure that his dispute with USFSA was NOT about money, what they can offer is much less than what he declined from the tours and shows.

    aftershocks, thank you for the kind words, yes, I like Jeremy, but I like Evan more . I've watched both skating live, Jeremy looks better on TV while Evan's skating is much more impressive in person. They're both great skaters, with very different styles, I just prefer Evan's more.

    jaana, I too, wish both will make the world team. jeremy seems to lock a spot already (with the COC gold), I'll pray for Evan to win the other spot.
    Last edited by Athena; 11-17-2011 at 03:14 AM.

  15. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    From SOI's official twitter:





    According to reliable resources, I knew that other than SOI tour, Evan was also invited by multiple Disson shows and last year's "Skating with the stars" (where he was offered multiple options), but he declined all of them . So I'm pretty sure that his dispute with USFSA was NOT about money, what they can offer is much less than what he declined from the tours and shows.
    I like, Evan, too, always have. If the dispute with the USFSA wasn't about money, then what was it?

    In October, U.S. Figure Skating announced that he would not compete at the 2011 Skate America due to a financial disagreement, and Lysacek confirmed that he would not take part in the Grand Prix series, explaining on his twitter that "a suitable agreement could not be reached between US Figure Skating and myself by the event entry deadline".

  16. #836
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    So far, all the speculation came from one comment from one USFS officer (which was not the official answer provided by USFSA). Knowing how much Evan has sacrificed to come back to competition, none of the "money" rumor makes sense to me. So, I too was puzzled about the real reason. But if Evan wants to keep everything low key, I'll respect his decision.

    Now the only thing that matters to his fans is that he'll be back, and we'll be there cheering for him again.

  17. #837

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    We'll know soon enough.

  18. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    So far, all the speculation came from one comment from one USFS officer (which was not the official answer provided by USFSA). Knowing how much Evan has sacrificed to come back to competition, none of the "money" rumor makes sense to me. So, I too was puzzled about the real reason. But if Evan wants to keep everything low key, I'll respect his decision.

    Now the only thing that matters to his fans is that he'll be back, and we'll be there cheering for him again.
    Well, then, what do you think Evan's tweet means? What kind of agreement between USFSA and "himself"..?

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/keyword/evan-lysacek

  19. #839
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    I wish I knew, but I don't . "Contract" is a very complicated legal document, fortunately, it's none of our business . If he competes at U.S. Championships, it'll confirm that the dispute was not about money, because, as USFSA said, there'll be neither award money nor appearance fee.

    Missing SOI is a good sign, I hope Evan's ready for the return. It's been a long waiting for his fans, and we finally see the light from the end of the tunnel.

  20. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    I wish I knew, but I don't . "Contract" is a very complicated legal document, fortunately, it's none of our business . If he competes at U.S. Championships, it'll confirm that the dispute was not about money, because, as USFSA said, there'll be neither award money nor appearance fee.

    Missing SOI is a good sign, I hope Evan's ready for the return. It's been a long waiting for his fans, and we finally see the light from the end of the tunnel.
    Or, if he competes because he really wants to, he will have come to the realization that there is no money..While, in truth, nothing is "our business' once it hit the media people speculated and discussed it. Plus, Evan made the news by saying he would return. Hey, we're on a forum, we discuss pretty much everything..Evan is afterall an OGM, he's news.

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