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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuktu View Post






    You and the other moderators have the power to close threads if they get out of hand, but why wouldn't you want healthy discussion about how to make things better with british skating? Isn't that one of the things that makes this forum so great?
    Because time and time again, it hasnt been a healthy discussion and has ended up with emails received to the admin team on several occasions that I dont want a repeat of.
    I dont want to have to close another thread (esp relating to a retired team) so let's just leave that type of discussion elsewhere.

    End of subject from me but this thread is being closely watched.
    Dont Hate! Gyrate!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHARPIE View Post
    Because time and time again, it hasnt been a healthy discussion and has ended up with emails received to the admin team on several occasions that I dont want a repeat of.
    I dont want to have to close another thread (esp relating to a retired team) so let's just leave that type of discussion elsewhere.

    End of subject from me but this thread is being closely watched.
    Where would you suggest that these issues get discussed? There is no facility for questions or complaints to be aired on the NISA website and the iSKATE magazine is owned by a director of the board and all content is only included on the editor's say so.

    Team GB has now lost a very talented couple because of what has gone on behind the scenes. If this website is a serious forum for genuine fans of skating to share their views about the sport, then it will continue to generate the interest it does and whatever income for the owners of the site.

    It is probably annoying for the moderators to deal with complaints, I can see that. Is that as big a deal as talented and dedicated athletes getting treated like something under the shoe of the governing body? I guess each reader can offer their own view on that question.

    I suspect that the moderators of this site had complaints from people that supported the board in answer to the allegations levelled at them, as well as complaints from people who had been slagged off by the supporters of the board.

    The thing is, the treatment of Chrissy and Mark finally got unbearable to the point where they decided to end their competitive career. So if this website supports the people that have defended NISA and their tactics of making things so messy in this forum that the threads get closed in order to prevent people finding out about what NISA is guilty of, then the website's credibility could also come under question.

    I would hate for that to happen because it is a great website for enthusiastic fans of skating around the world to share their views.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuktu View Post
    Where would you suggest that these issues get discussed?
    On an independent Internet forum created for this purpose? Or start a private email list/group for concerned NISA members who would like to work on improving and/or changing the system from within?

    Best wishes to Christina and Mark!

  4. #24
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    Timbuktu, as far as I know NISA is not the only national federation with questionable tactics and lots of politicking going on. Actually this is the norm, not the exception. Every now and then we read on the FSU about how many federations interfere with the outcome of their national championships and/or use questionable criteria to choose their national teams.

    Yet it is possible to mention the names of French, Russian, German or Italian skaters and discuss their skating without the thread becoming a war over the actions of their respective federations. Why shouldn't this be possible for the skaters from the UK? Peace.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Timbuktu, as far as I know NISA is not the only national federation with questionable tactics and lots of politicking going on. Actually this is the norm, not the exception. Every now and then we read on the FSU about how many federations interfere with the outcome of their national championships and/or use questionable criteria to choose their national teams.

    Yet it is possible to mention the names of French, Russian, German or Italian skaters and discuss their skating without the thread becoming a war over the actions of their respective federations. Why shouldn't this be possible for the skaters from the UK? Peace.
    Funnily enough, I totally agree with you.

    I suspect that everything blew up in britain last year because there was an election in parallel with two legal actions, one of which ended with NISA losing in the High Court.

    I have no idea whether whether people in support of other federations get involved with the debate on FSU because I don't read all the threads, but it was pretty clear that current NISA board members contributed to the debate here whether it was directly or indirectly.

    Either way, the politics was specifically mentioned by Mark as contributing to his decision, so ought to be relevant for discussion at least up to a point. If the subject has been exhausted then fair enough, but if people are frightened to post their views in case the thread gets closed then that is another matter.

    I personally don't want trouble for the people that moderate this site or for any of the readers and contributors. But it is upsetting when people that want to represent the country get treated so badly.

  6. #26
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    Timbuktu, I am not a moderator but the point Sharpie tried to make (I think) is that if remarks that are seen as libelous are made in a thread, then FSU is ultimately responsible for it and when contacted about it, the admins have no choice but to close the thread. Otherwise there could be legal repercussions to that.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Timbuktu, I am not a moderator but the point Sharpie tried to make (I think) is that if remarks that are seen as libelous are made in a thread, then FSU is ultimately responsible for it and when contacted about it, the admins have no choice but to close the thread. Otherwise there could be legal repercussions to that.
    Avoiding legal action is an entirely reasonable thing to do. From what little I have seen about people on here complaining about other Federations, I'm not aware of the Federations worrying about what is said here in this site. Is that because they don't feel threatened by what is said here, or because they have less to worry about?

    Timbuktu isn't alone in wanting to see improvements in British skating by talking about it and doing what can be done to carry the ideas through where possible.

    Perhaps this site is not the best place to debate these issues, but considering it is a forum for sharing opinions and ideas then it seems to me concerning that the Association in this country is so sensitive over what people want to say here.

    I don't want problems for anyone either, but when people have asked legitimate questions about what goes on then isn't that part of what this site is designed for? In an ideal world the people that have had allegations made about them would stop doing serious things wrong.

    If there were only fun things to chit-chat about then the world would be a much more pleasant place. Also, C&H would probably still have the desire to go as far as they are able in their competitive career.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Timbuktu, I am not a moderator but the point Sharpie tried to make (I think) is that if remarks that are seen as libelous are made in a thread, then FSU is ultimately responsible for it and when contacted about it, the admins have no choice but to close the thread. Otherwise there could be legal repercussions to that.
    I have stayed out of this discussion for some time because the last time I made a comment one of the more regular posters gave me some negative feedback. But those that were standing up for fair play last year, and there were quite a few at the time, have been proven to be right. We have lost a wonderful couple and it is so sad that there weren't more people willing to support those people that were trying to spread the news about what has gone on at the top.

    Thanks to whoever posted the detailed list of issues recently, I was able to see more of what so many people have been upset about the way skating is being run in the UK. I didn't see anything libellous in that list, but it was still deleted.

    Someone was scared about the content of those questions gaining a wider audience, and it is hardly a surprise when you see such a comprehensive list of mismanagement or deliberate manipulation of the rules.

    Is anything else happening to find out why so many rules werenít followed? And if not, surely we should be discussing how to prevent such a travesty from happening again.

    As for closing an entire thread when someone gets too aggressive, why are you suggesting that this is the only option when individual posts have been deleted in the past?

  9. #29
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    The Admins here have day jobs and other things in their lives besides constantly monitoring threads for potentially exploding dumps, especially on topics -- explicit or by drift -- that have produced exploding dumps each time they are discussed.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Timbuktu, as far as I know NISA is not the only national federation with questionable tactics and lots of politicking going on. Actually this is the norm, not the exception. Every now and then we read on the FSU about how many federations interfere with the outcome of their national championships and/or use questionable criteria to choose their national teams.

    Yet it is possible to mention the names of French, Russian, German or Italian skaters and discuss their skating without the thread becoming a war over the actions of their respective federations. Why shouldn't this be possible for the skaters from the UK? Peace.
    It was in my mind on my last post on this thread to say that Mark's comments on his website about politicking etc. could easily apply in many other skating federations and probably many other sports. I don't think you can get away from it and it you want to get to the very top, you have to weigh up your ambitions against how much you are prepared to be controlled by others. As with many things, I think it has got worse since money was more of an issue. There are more competitions to travel to, costs are higher, NISA people are under pressure from those organisations funding skating to provide the results, and mistakes perhpas get made. The people running associations are only human after all.

    I really don't know why the British threads always turn into a war. Maybe it is to do with the nature of British people, or that we are used to the slanging matches of our politicians and the way things are presented in the media, and that makes us more likely to speak our minds without thinking of the consequences.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    The Admins here have day jobs and other things in their lives besides constantly monitoring threads for potentially exploding dumps, especially on topics -- explicit or by drift -- that have produced exploding dumps each time they are discussed.
    Of course the admins of the site have lives too, as they should. Iím not meaning any criticism of them at all, last year was very tough for them. But itís not true to say that every british thread was closed down in a heap of flames either because I think the first one that was closed was thread 5. That was right after the fallout from the elections if I remember correctly.

    All Iím saying is that as hard as it was for the admins to stay on top of things here, that pales in comparison to the sacrifice that athletes give up to represent us, and when they have to endure the additional rubbish that Mark and Chrissy had to, the only way I can think of to avoid other skaters being mistreated in similar ways is to help those of us that have tried to bring the issues to light here.

    Perhaps there are other ways too, but from what Iíve seen the answers that came back from the agm were pathetic, so there is no improvement in attitude from this board as far as I can see. It is one thing to forgive them for making honest mistakes, but if they are deliberately trying to deceive the members then that is a different story altogether.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuktu View Post
    All Iím saying is that as hard as it was for the admins to stay on top of things here, that pales in comparison to the sacrifice that athletes give up to represent us, and when they have to endure the additional rubbish that Mark and Chrissy had to, the only way I can think of to avoid other skaters being mistreated in similar ways is to help those of us that have tried to bring the issues to light here.
    This is a private board. It's neither your call nor my call to determine what sacrifices anyone, including the board owner and other admins, should make on behalf of anyone else. They are allowed to create limits.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuktu View Post
    Where would you suggest that these issues get discussed?
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    On an independent Internet forum created for this purpose? Or start a private email list/group for concerned NISA members who would like to work on improving and/or changing the system from within?

    Best wishes to Christina and Mark!
    This ...

    As FSU is a privately owned BRITISH Website that wishes not to be that forum you want. Sorry it didnt work out. Bye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Timbuktu, as far as I know NISA is not the only national federation with questionable tactics and lots of politicking going on. Actually this is the norm, not the exception. Every now and then we read on the FSU about how many federations interfere with the outcome of their national championships and/or use questionable criteria to choose their national teams.

    Yet it is possible to mention the names of French, Russian, German or Italian skaters and discuss their skating without the thread becoming a war over the actions of their respective federations. Why shouldn't this be possible for the skaters from the UK? Peace.


    This is what I wonder too Asli.


    Quote Originally Posted by DanceDanceDance View Post

    Perhaps this site is not the best place to debate these issues, but considering it is a forum for sharing opinions and ideas then it seems to me concerning that the Association in this country is so sensitive over what people want to say here.

    I don't want problems for anyone either, but when people have asked legitimate questions about what goes on then isn't that part of what this site is designed for? In an ideal world the people that have had allegations made about them would stop doing serious things wrong.
    FFS! havent I made this site's position here clear MANY times over?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuktu View Post
    All I’m saying is that as hard as it was for the admins to stay on top of things here, that pales in comparison to the sacrifice that athletes give up to represent us, and when they have to endure the additional rubbish that Mark and Chrissy had to, the only way I can think of to avoid other skaters being mistreated in similar ways is to help those of us that have tried to bring the issues to light here.
    OK, everything bad that has EVER happened in my life pales in comparison ... yeah OK.

    Im sorry DanceDanceDance and Timbuktu but I am removing your memberships, I dont have the time to keep going OVER this shit. Dont bother emailing re how UNFAIR we are but you have both been asked on numerous occasions to knock it off.
    Dont Hate! Gyrate!

  14. #34
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    Thanks for your efforts Sharpie and for not closing the thread down.

    Sheffield skaters should get some benefit as Christina and Mark will presumably put more time into coaching?

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    Go Sharpie!

    On topic, one of the skaters and her mum at my rink went back to the UK in January and said she had some lessons with Christina. Said she was an excellent coach.

    I am disappointed that they have separated because from what I saw they were very talented. But I think British ice dancers overall have been very underrated on the world scene. I have always enjoyed the British teams when I have got to see them from Euros and Worlds. The Kerrs are probably an exception in that they have really made a mark internationally and got the respect they deserved.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHARPIE View Post
    This ...

    As FSU is a privately owned BRITISH Website that wishes not to be that forum you want. Sorry it didnt work out. Bye.





    This is what I wonder too Asli.




    FFS! havent I made this site's position here clear MANY times over?!



    OK, everything bad that has EVER happened in my life pales in comparison ... yeah OK.

    Im sorry DanceDanceDance and Timbuktu but I am removing your memberships, I dont have the time to keep going OVER this shit. Dont bother emailing re how UNFAIR we are but you have both been asked on numerous occasions to knock it off.
    What is this siteís position? It makes sense to have rules about not posting libellous content, but you didnít remove these people for posting anything libellous. I didnít always agree with them, but at least they seemed to have good reasons for posting what they said.

    Did you remove them simply because they persisted in posting an opinion that you didnít agree with? An opinion that was one of the reasons Mark and Christina retired from competing. Iíd like to understand in case I ever feel like posting anything else in the future?

  17. #37
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    They were banned for being a pain in the arse. Don't be a pain in the arse and you won't be banned. Simple as that. Clear enough?

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paragraph3s View Post
    What is this site’s position? It makes sense to have rules about not posting libellous content, but you didn’t remove these people for posting anything libellous. I didn’t always agree with them, but at least they seemed to have good reasons for posting what they said.
    To answer your question -- the following was posted in November 2009:
    Quote Originally Posted by SHARPIE View Post
    OK, 2 more posts removed and I am calling time for now on future British Skating Threads - This is an Olympic Season and the Admin Team have enough to do than to monitor this thread for constant unsubtantiated gossip. If you wish to start a thread about individual British Skaters/Teams then please do so, but we will start to remove posters from the forum who continue with the constant gossip that these threads bring. Whether it's true or not is not for me or the other admins to judge but keeping it here looks like we endorse it.

    And for those who want to bang on about free speech, this is a privately owned message board and not a place to say whatever you like OK? Cheers.
    Back on topic... Chrissy wrote in her June 5th journal: "We will be performing in IceAct’s Chiller shows in Cardiff and Altrincham on June 12 and 13." If anyone attends this show, reviews would be most welcomed!

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    To answer your question -- the following was posted in November 2009:


    Back on topic... Chrissy wrote in her June 5th journal: "We will be performing in IceActís Chiller shows in Cardiff and Altrincham on June 12 and 13." If anyone attends this show, reviews would be most welcomed!
    Like everyone I am so sad to see them go, such lovely people and a dream to watch and I`m sure a fantastic new future lays ahead of them.

    Not sure how to start a new thread if someone could do, I`d appreciate. I was wondering how the senior british pairs are doing preparing for the season? I know Sally Hoolin has been off the ice for 6 months or so with a serious form of anaemia but recently told she had been seen back on the ice, though told looked weak was hoping this is a sign they`ll be competing this year. David n Stacey I know are training hard but with so much water between hear nothing of Erica and Robert. Be nice to see a full podium at the british.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    To answer your question -- the following was posted in November 2009:


    Back on topic... Chrissy wrote in her June 5th journal: "We will be performing in IceActís Chiller shows in Cardiff and Altrincham on June 12 and 13." If anyone attends this show, reviews would be most welcomed!
    Thank you for your reasoned response Sylvia.

    I haven't got the time to be an advocate for either cause, but it's worth pointing out that we're no longer in an Olympic Season, the points made weren't about unsubstantiated gossip (C&H have actually retired and part of their reason was the politics), and this is in an individual thread about Mark and Christina's retirement. So the reasons you posted do not apply in this case. Similarly, whatever Sharpie has gone through that "pales in comparison" is not relevant to this topic.

    Obviously there are people that prefer to ban people or otherwise put them off competing if their face doesn't fit, but if everyone was like that then the world would be a horrible place.

    I wish Christina and Mark all the best for their future, but am sad that it got as bad as it did for them. If this site endorses the behaviour that was inflicted on them, by burying it's head in the sand or otherwise blocking people willing to stand up for our skaters, then I doubt I will make much time to return very often either.

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