Where would Sasha have landed in Vancouver with her SP performance @ 2010 Nats?

[RD]

Even at her own Nationals where it was later revealed that NBC basically made the USFSA almost promise Cohen went to Vancouver barring something drastic, the U.S judges still placed her behind Nagasu without a triple-triple in the SP for that skate.

But this was never confirmed, was it? As far as I can see it was simply speculation by some skatefans back during the selection process, when it seemed to be taking longer than usual. And it seemed to find some wheels of its own...

And the judges simply could not have placed Cohen above Nagasu and not expected rumors of "skandal" to erupt. Just like with refs in soccer or basketball games, there is only so much you can do to fix a result...the athlete (or team) still at least has to perform convincingly. But saying that, I absolutely DON'T think this was a fixed event, as screwy as the judging may have been.

EDIT:: Speculation: If they wanted to attempt to fix Nats to favor Cohen, they could have easily done this: give Nagasu and Cohen some buffer room in the short, giving both huge scores (keeping Nagasu as the overall leader to avoid mass suspicion) while marking Flatt down several points (the latter's what happened at the Olys, right?). This would allow Cohen a little more room for error in the FS since Flatt would almost certainly skate a clean (or strong) FS. Although this would STILL require Cohen to at least show competence in the long, deliver a respectably strong performance, in order to give the judges latitude to inflate her scores and thus put her into the top 2. Not that it would have done her any favors in the long run anyway.

EDIT II: Damn, I can't believe I'm actually saying this junk. It REALLY is off-season isn't it

[Wyliefan]

Unsubstantiated rumors of an almost promise that was never kept? Heavens, the corruption.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Outside the top 6.

[Polymer Bob]

You make it sound like she is some huge name at this point. In the U.S maybe she is but internationally she is a skater who had been retired for 4 years and in her prime couldn’t even win a single major title.

This question arises from time to time. Is the senior Grand Prix Final a major title?

And the judges simply could not have placed Cohen above Nagasu and not expected rumors of "skandal" to erupt. Just like with refs in soccer or basketball games, there is only so much you can do to fix a result...the athlete (or team) still at least has to perform convincingly.

Would it have been possible to give Sasha the title with just a few clean triples by inflating her PCS beyond logic and reason? I’m just not sure.
Somebody please email Alissa and find out.

[michiruwater]

Not even SashaFans(tm) would have thought that was cool, Polymer Bob.

Though SashaFans(tm) all think the GPF is a major title Honestly, I don't care if she never won Worlds or the Olympics, which are apparently the only titles worth winning according to posters here everytime this damned discussion breaks out. She has a record 99% of the skaters on the planet would kill for, she never landed off the podium after 2003 Worlds (well, until the pewter at 2010 Nats - I don't know if that counts) and she's earned a place in history whether people like to admit it or not. The very fact that she is still so famous as to garner the media attention she did at Nationals 4 years after stepping on the ice is testament enough to that. She had a special quality that somehow made her inability to actually secure either of those titles irrelevant to her overall fame and how many fans she had, and the fact that, without her, I probably would never have discovered how much I love this sport makes her very special to me personally.

At the Olys her SP would have put her in the medal hunt and her LP would have seen her well off the podium. I can't guess precise numbers and I won't bother.

[piano18]

Sasha wouldn't even have made top 3 after the short, how does she have a decent shot at bronze?

[museksk8r]

Would it have been possible to give Sasha the title with just a few clean triples by inflating her PCS beyond logic and reason? I’m just not sure.
Somebody please email Alissa and find out.

The big difference is Czisny at least managed to cleanly land and fully rotate 3 clean triples in her 2009 Nationals LP. Plus, unlike Sasha, her SP was clean (no -GOE on her jumps). Cohen, on the other hand, didn't manage a single clean triple in that mess of a LP at 2010 Nationals. Every triple jump landing had a 2-foot, a step-out, or a fall. Every single one of her jumping passes with the exception of her 2Axel garnered -GOE.

[museksk8r]

Sasha wouldn't even have made top 3 after the short, how does she have a decent shot at bronze?

The delusions of Sashafans(TM) are highly amusing to say the least.

[Lanie]

The big difference is Czisny at least managed to cleanly land and fully rotate 3 clean triples in her 2009 Nationals LP. Plus, unlike Sasha, her SP was clean (no -GOE on her jumps). Cohen, on the other hand, didn't manage a single clean triple in that mess of a LP at 2010 Nationals. Every triple jump landing had a 2-foot, a step-out, or a fall. Every single one of her jumping passes with the exception of her 2Axel garnered -GOE.

Because she was injured, undertrained and should never have showed up, but I think that if she didn't go to Nationals, she would have been eaten alive, so.

I think 4th in the SP, top 10 or outside in the LP.

[RD]

Sasha wouldn't even have made top 3 after the short, how does she have a decent shot at bronze?

It's about striking distance in points, not placement. As long as you can make up the point difference, placement after the SP no longer matters nowadays.

Of course, the above may be less relevant in Cohen's case, since she almost always drops in the standings from the SP to the LP

[pinky166]

Sasha wuzgifted in the SP at US nationals....she'd never have scored that high internationally, with her huge flutz and tiny jumps and two-foots. Plus I find her layback spin not that beautiful b/c she sticks her head out in the beillman.

[judgejudy27]

All skaters score higher at U.S Nationals for comparable performances than they would elsewhere (except the last 2 years Lysacek of all people strangely enough, and possibly Weir). And it is like that for other peoples Nationals too. The question is would Nagasu outscore Cohen at the Olympics for the same performances they did at Nationals? Flatt did a worse performance at the Olympics than Nationals yet finished above Nagasu there when she had finished behind her at Nationals. I think the most interesting thing of all is how they would have placed all 3 American girls vs each other. It seems everyone on this thread has Cohen 4th, a couple even 3rd, so most seem to think Cohen would be judged more favorably vs her teammates for the same skate than at Nationals (considering Nagasu's Olympic SP was really basically the same as Nationals as well).

[RD]

All skaters score higher at U.S Nationals for comparable performances than they would elsewhere (except the last 2 years Lysacek of all people strangely enough, and possibly Weir).

I'd probably add Caroline Zhang to that list

[Simone411]

3rd, possibly 4th.... but i can't really see her being put behind rochette, just cuz she's sasha cohen and i think they'd make her PCS higher and the goes on the SpSq and spins higher.

Joannie was where she should have been and deservingly so. Sasha didn't make it to the Olys. because of her free skate. If she didn't have the same problem as usual with her lack of concentration in landing jumps during her free skate, she might have made it to the Olympics this year. It doesn't matter if she's "Sasha Cohen" or not ... she didn't cut it this year. That's why she didn't go. Yeah, what a bummer but her jumps have always been her problem.

[briancoogaert]

Will she try to be in the World team next year ?

[kwanfan1818]

Even at her own Nationals where it was later revealed that NBC basically made the USFSA almost promise Cohen went to Vancouver barring something drastic, the U.S judges still placed her behind Nagasu without a triple-triple in the SP for that skate.

I must have missed the drama when the video/audio/document was revealed.

[Polymer Bob]

I must have missed the drama when the video/audio/document was revealed.

I can't say it's true but I can see why NBC would want her there. She was the only former Olympic medalist among the ladies. The average American can't tell you who the World Champion is, but remember Sasha on the Olympic podium.

[Wyliefan]

The delusions of Sashafans(TM) are highly amusing to say the least.

None of us can get through life without a few delusions.

[pinky166]

All skaters score higher at U.S Nationals for comparable performances than they would elsewhere (except the last 2 years Lysacek of all people strangely enough, and possibly Weir). And it is like that for other peoples Nationals too. The question is would Nagasu outscore Cohen at the Olympics for the same performances they did at Nationals? Flatt did a worse performance at the Olympics than Nationals yet finished above Nagasu there when she had finished behind her at Nationals. I think the most interesting thing of all is how they would have placed all 3 American girls vs each other. It seems everyone on this thread has Cohen 4th, a couple even 3rd, so most seem to think Cohen would be judged more favorably vs her teammates for the same skate than at Nationals (considering Nagasu's Olympic SP was really basically the same as Nationals as well).

Caroline scores lower or the same at nationals, not higher. And Mirai's SP at the Olympics wasn't as good as her SP at nationals, plus she had an awful start order so they kept her PCS down. Her SP at Worlds was of comparable quality to her one at nationals and she got an almost identical score. Rachael has never scored close to 69 internationally and I'm afraid the same would be true of Sasha, I mean, her amazing SP at the 06 Olympics scored like 67 right? Her one at this year's nationals wasn't nearly as good, so I'm thinking it would be more in the 60-65 range

[judgejudy27]

Nagasu's SP at Worlds was much better than Nationals. Her jumps were the strongest she has ever done by far. Plus she atleast attempted the triple-triple (even though it was downgraded).